California commercial/sportfishing legal question

[thediverdude]

I recently bought a commercial salmon troller and plan to fish the 2012-13 season. I am new to commercial fishing and sat down over the weekend to read the title 14 California code of regulations that regulates commercial fishing. Surprised to find out that section 8232.5 (a) reads “except as provided in this section, it is unlawful to take salmon for sport purposes on a permitted vessel”

I was planning to do some sport fishing on my “new” boat, following the sport fishing regulations, until the commercial season starts. Following 8232(a) is subparts (b), (c), and (d) which I do not qualify for.

I then read section 8231 subpart (g) which reads “”permitted vessel” means a commercial fishing vessel for which a permit is currently valid”I concluded that if I have not yet purchased my 2012-2013 commercial boat registration and salmon permit, I do not have a commercial fishing vessel for which a permit is currently valid. Is my interpretation correct and I can legally sport fish salmon until I have a valid permit?

I called three different DFG offices for the answer and believe it or not got three different answers.

One agreed with my conclusion. Another agent agreed I was probably correct, although some agents may not agree. The last one told me if I did not intend on getting the 2012-13 permit it would be ok to sport fish, But, if I intended on getting 2012 permit than it would not be ok. I don’t understand how “my intentions” have any effect on this issue.

My first question, if I do not have my 2012-2013 commercial boat registration and salmon permit, can I sport fish?

Part two. Before I knew about the above, I had already paid for and received my 2012-2013 commercial boat registration and salmon permit.

On the bottom of the 2012-2013 commercial boat registration and salmon permit there is the following statement “NOT VALID UNLESS SIGNED”. I have not signed them yet. I concluded that at this point I do not have a vessel for which a permit is currently valid.

I discussed this with the three agents and got basically the same three different answers.

My second question, if I have not signed the 2012-2013 commercial boat registration and salmon permit, can I sport fish?

I am an aircraft mechanic and pilot and have had to live by the federal code of regulation for 30+ years. It appears the California code of regulations is much the same. It’s not what the regulation says; it’s the interpretation of the regulation that you have to abide by.

I know my post is wordy and boring, but I really would like to use my boat to sport fish until commercial season starts. Any input would be great. Thanks in advance.

[islands50]

Welcome to the world of the left hand has no idea what the right hand is doing, I also ran into the same problem, not just with State regulations but also federal, I posed a question about the High Seas permit, and recived the anwser I was expecting, along with a half dozen you can not do that with this permit, I want to go after Tuna, and looked at trolling as a non restricted fishery, in the gulf of Mexico, here is the catch, in order to land the fish for market, you are required to have a state boat and personal permit. all good and well, Then comes the question, what type of permit ? After several phone calls, a few e-mails, I talked to the head of the dept of fish and game. Like you prior to that I recived different anwsers to the same question.

The nice part about this is he also suggested a couple of more permits, readly available, along with suggestions of which Port would be the best market area. Got to love TEXAS !!!

Good luck with your fishing, and I do hope you knock them dead !!

[thediverdude]

Thanks for the encourgment. Good idea, email the head of CA. DFG.

[Capt. Midnite]

From what I can understand, the answer is no, find an agent in the field and ask him or her, they write the citations, they will tell you no. Have I done it, yes but with caution.

F/V shooting Star
Ft. Bragg Ca.

[Capt. Midnite]

From what I can understand, the answer is no, find an agent in the field and ask him or her, they write the citations, they will tell you no. Have I done it, yes but with caution.

F/V shooting Star
Ft. Bragg Ca.

I could have done better with an answer, ''don't post until you're awake''. Here's the deal the way I read all this Ca. F.G bs. Forget about season dates, you bought a boat with a valid salmon permit, the permit is actually good for a calender year, so renewed or not you are on a permitted vessel, and according to your friends at the DFG it is illegal to sport fish for salmon on a permitted vessel. I hope this makes sense, and welcome to the wonderful world of fishing in Ca., and trust me in my 38yrs. of doing this, 95% of what they do never made any sense to me.

[Salty]

We used to have a similar rule in Alaska, until I proposed and we got it changed on a 4-3 vote by the Alaska Board of Fisheries (BOF). What I did in those days was wait to register my troller until after I had done my sport fishing. I was not winter fishing during those years. Sport fishing in May and June off my troller was an important part of my lifestyle and food supply in those days.
The other deal I learned about was that we could "charter sport fish" off a licensed troller. So, I went and got a "6 pac" charter license and chartered myself until we got the BOF to allow sport fishing off your licensed troller so long as you immediately removed the dorsal fin of any sport caught salmon. Now, you can't "charter" yourself so it is a good thing we got the other rule, which I have not used in the last 2 or 3 years.

I never take Fish and Game personnel word as gospel, as much as I love them. I go to enforcement and talk directly to the guy who might be giving me the ticket and make sure I understand how he/she sees the rule and is going to enforce it. If I am not satisfied then I go up the ladder until I get a clear answer and then sometimes get a written opinion.

We are going through that exercise with NOAA enforcement and subsistence halibut rules here now.

The other thing I learned is that sometimes it takes a year or so to understand and figure out all the regulations to do what you want.

Then you should immediately share what you have learned or you will be in the situation I have been in several times where you are perfectly legal but your peers or other interests don't understand the rules and are turning you in or bad mouthing you. It helps to have a written copy of the exact rules "and" a letter from enforcement as you are training the new fish cop on your boat after he has driven 50 miles in the wind and rain to bust you on a tip from one of your peers who either didn't read the book or didn't check with enforcement before turning you in.
Actually, sometimes the rule book is not perfectly clear. I believe those of us who help make the rules and have an interest in them have a responsibility to share what we learn with the fleet.

It is now legal to take spare rods and reels handtrolling in Alaska.

Good luck sport fishing off of California, sounds like it will be good.

[salmon4u]

One thing to remember.. email is admissible evidence in court.

[Capt. Midnite]

One thing to remember.. email is admissible evidence in court.

Are we going to court?

[thediverdude]

Thanks for the replies.

Here is the reply I got from the CA fish and game.

"Fishing for salmon aboard a commercially permitted salmon vessel is prohibited unless you are in the Klamath Management Zone and the commercial season is closed.
The other option is to be licensed as a CPFV. In that case you just can't do both activities in the same day (Both in sections 8232.5).

The scenario described about "waiting to renew" wont work unless the permit is allowed to lapse and becomes void. If this happens then the permit will no longer be issued to the vessel and commercial take of salmon will be prohibited.

My advice would be to buy a CPFV license in addition to the salmon permit."

Sounds so simple. But do I need a captaians licence? Or could I just take my buddies out and not charge them?

[Capt. Midnite]

Yep, you need the captain licence, I got mine 4 or 5yrs. ago. Not an easy test anymore, I've been using mine to run six pacs. out of Shelter Cove, but not on my troller. The way out of this is 2 boats, that's what I had to do. You're in Noyo right? did you know that there is a guy there with 7 boats, that's right 7! used to fish open access Black Cod, he has to do this because of the way the regs. are written, I guess I'm lucky, I only have to have 2.

[thediverdude]

Great!!! I have 3 airplanes and now I need to explain to my wife I need another boat.

[Capt. Midnite]

I needed the licence because I take passengers for hire, you don't need the licence, right you need another boat, and I just happen to have one of the nicest if not the nicest 25ft. center consul boat set up perfect for salmon albacore, and halibut, perfect for YOU, and your friends, but sorry no airplane trades.

Jon
F/V Shooting Star
F.T. Bragg Ca.