How much do you pay for fishing vessel insurance?

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pioneercmt
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How much do you pay for fishing vessel insurance?

Post by pioneercmt »

Just wondering how much you guys pay to insure your commercial fishing vessel insurance? My boat costs $8,800 a year thru an outfit in Newport, OR. It covers $50,000 worth of vessel, standard P&I limits, actually maybe a notch higher than standard, and 2 crew for 2 mos for dungeness, and 2 crew for 2 mos for salmon. I told the agent I only had 1 deckhand for either fisheries, but she asked do you ever have anyone help, like drive a truck, or help unload, etc? She said they would be considered part of the operation, and that I needed to cover them too. She said crew liability is the biggest part, and I was paying for 8 man months, a big number. I'm kind of new to this, but my premium seems a little excessive to me. I've been a boatowner for 22 years, and have fished commercially for about 4 years total. The other insurance companies said they wouldn't insure a boat built in the 1970's. I told them a lot of boats were built in the 70's and are insured, and that my boat is fiberglass too. They didn't answer back.
1973 36' Westport FG Troller. They call it 36', but actually closer to 35', and documented at 32.7'. Detroit 6V-71N. Cruises 6 knots with 4 blade 20RH18 (slow salmon prop, a little dinged). With 3 blade 24RH20 (everything else prop), cruise is 8.8 knots @1380 rpm. 4 spool Hasbra. 17" Junes block. 300 gal fuel. 10 gal water (going to add more). Standard Ice hold (but I put bonars in there and slush). Aluminum 3000 lb crab insert when crabbing.
Once and Future
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Re: How much do you pay for fishing vessel insurance?

Post by Once and Future »

Yes, I think there are better options than the company/agent you are using. I pay much less than that, but I don't carry full coverage on my hull, which is chancy.

Best option is insurance through the troller's co-op, but you have to know the secret handshake to get in, and I don't.

The other 2 good options, in no particular order, Griffin Maclain (company name) and Eric Evern (agent's name-I disremember his company name) both out of Seattle.

Sounds to me like your agent is intentionally try to run up your bill by trying to add someone who drives a truck to the dock as a crewmember. It is obvious to me the true deckhand is at much higher risk for serious injury, and this is the person you want to protect.

Evern is the one that offers liability and crew coverage without having to insure your own hull against damage. That is what I get, but also a rider so that if I am determined at fault, my insurance would pay for the other guy's hull in a collision. Eric also offers pollution insurance with very high limits of payout.

Girffin Mclain gets more competitive if you have crew for more months, and you want (or require) your own hull be covered. Their pollution insurance had very low limits, though.

Related topic: I've been told when your deckhand buys his commercial license, he is covered by a Fisherman's Fund. One captain told me there is a limit of $2500 on that. Another captain told me the coverage is so high you don't need crew insurance. I suspect the $2500 coverage is the correct info. I wanted to bring the point up because if the higher coverage is true, great. But if many captains falsely believe their crew is fully covered by Fisherman's Fund, that is a very bad situation. It's one of those things that is so important that we should not accept anecdotal advice to make the decision.
Once and Future
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Re: How much do you pay for fishing vessel insurance?

Post by Once and Future »

I'll add this. When I returned to fishing, the first 3 insurance companies I talked to regarded me with suspicion. They seemed to be looking for reasons to deny my application or raise the rates. Both Griffin Maclain and Eric Evern were the opposite. They were eager to work with a fisherman, and looked for solutions rather than throwing up obstacles.
ericv
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Re: How much do you pay for fishing vessel insurance?

Post by ericv »

For several years we were carried by Griffin MacLean and had great service, particularly with rep John Long. He is now with North Star Marine Insurance based in Seattle, contact him at 206-285-4655. We've been under their coverage w/o any headaches what so ever. I do not have crew and only power troll part time. My layup period runs from October through March which can be activated by a simple call to John for increments of 2 weeks or more at a pro-rated fee. We have 100k liability with towing, fire and vandalism coverage as well. Our vessel is a fiberglass, Jimmy powered, displacement hulled 34' Daniels built in 1976 - other than a survey every 5 years - no problems with John and his company what so ever. Our annual rate runs around $1500.00 - Hope this helps.

Eric - F/V New Hope - Sitka
islands50
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Re: How much do you pay for fishing vessel insurance?

Post by islands50 »

I maybe out of my leauge here but with the way the Jones Act attorneys seem to look for huge settlements, I would cover my Azz.

As I was told, years ago you can never have too much insurance, IE: hull, libilty, medical,Jones Act, ect. currently I carry over 6 milion combined limited libiley and commerical insurance, just on my pick-up, but with the expencive loads I work with, at times it s not enough.

Have you ever questiioned the reason you see very few US flaged cargo ships ??? it is the damned Jones Act !!! or asked why you can't use a forgin built hull ?? it is the Jones Act !!

I know a few people fish Canadian hulls, but they are less then 5 tons net. again the Jones Act.
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Re: How much do you pay for fishing vessel insurance?

Post by JYDPDX »

incredible.

from Wki:

"This was highlighted by a 1999 U.S. International Trade Commission economic study, which suggested that a repeal of the Jones Act would lower shipping costs by approximately 22 percent. Also, a 2002 economic study from the same Commission found that repealing the Jones Act would have an annual positive welfare effect of $656 million on the overall U.S. economy. Since these studies are the most recent statistics available, imagine the impact a repeal of the Jones Act would have today: far more than a $656 million annual positive welfare impact – maybe closer to $1 billion. These statistics demonstrate that a repeal of the Jones Act could prove to be a true stimulus to our economy in the midst of such difficult economic times.

"The Jones Act also adds a real, direct cost to consumers – particularly consumers in Hawaii and Alaska. A 1988 GAO report found that the Jones Act was costing Alaskan families between $1,921 and $4,821 annually for increased prices paid on goods shipped from the mainland. In 1997, a Hawaii government official named Gene Ward asserted that Hawaii residents pay an additional $1 billion per year in higher prices because of the Jones Act. This amounts to approximately $3,000 for every household in Hawaii.’”
Once and Future
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Re: How much do you pay for fishing vessel insurance?

Post by Once and Future »

Well I am not sure specifically what you are referring to regarding the risk of the Jones act. But I know this: if I lose my hull, I am the only one that is out. This is not true if someone has a lien on your hull. But there is definitely "enough" when it comes to the insurance placed on the hull. It should equal the value of the hull, if you are going to cover it. If you insured it for more than its worth, the insurance company may or may not cooperate. But when the claim came in, they could balk, even if you paid the premium for years.

Now if I damage someone else's boat, and maybe injure the people aboard it or mine, then you start to have so much damage you could get into the millions. Also, an oil slick could potentially run into a lot of money. So I want significant coverage on those fronts.

But here is one thing I believe I have figured correctly. If you're insured for, say, half a million in those events, that will get your insurance company's attention. They will send a better lawyer to your trial on yours and their behalf than you can ever hire on your own.

So I now you can never have enough insurance for liability issues. But that doesn't mean you can go out and buy 10 million dollars worth. You have to draw the line somewhere.

These are only my thoughts on the matter, and I am no expert. So please do your own research.

Anybody going to weigh in on my deckhand insurance question?
islands50
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Re: How much do you pay for fishing vessel insurance?

Post by islands50 »

I am defently no expert on "deckhand" coverage, there again it falls under the Solas, and Jones act coverage.
If you rwere refering to the guy at the dock that recives your catch, that I would talk to my agent about. My feeling are that if he is actully on the vessel and gets injered then you maybe libal, yet if he is not on the vessel, then his employer should have him covered. There again with the crazy way attornys think who knows
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