New power troller looking for advice

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mattakfish
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New power troller looking for advice

Post by mattakfish »

Hi all. I have been a weekend hand troller for the past several years in SE and am now making the leap to power. I will be closing on my new vessel within a couple weeks and just located and entered into an agreement for a permit.

The move is thrilling, scary, and overwhelming all at the same time. I plan on running the boat close to town on weekends up to this June, when I am free to fish full-time through mid-august.

The boat itself is pretty turnkey, but I still need a variety of gear. I've gotten lots of great advice from the local guys I know, but thought I'd join the forum to hear from others around the region and share my experiences. Any advice is welcome. Here are a few of the things I'm wondering about:

-I'd love to hear people's thoughts on Coastal Explorer versus Nobeltec.

-I am torn on whether to hire a deckhand for my first season since I will be figuring out a lot of things for the first time and I'm not sure a job on my boat will be worthwhile moneywise. I thought about offering a deal where the deckhand would get a flat amount guaranteed or 12% of gross, whichever turns out to be more. Not sure how much would be reasonable for a flat amount for a green deckhand. Or, I could just brave it on my own. Any thoughts?

-Lots of gear questions of course......At this point, I plan to buy an assortment of flashers, spoons, hoochies and hooks. I'd like to get set up for dogs as well as kings and cohos. Any particular styles I should make sure to pick up? How much gear is enough? I think I know the answer to that last question already.....you never have enough gear!

Anyway, I'd love to hear any advice you may care to offer, whether you have 50 years in the business or are relatively new. Thanks!
Matt on the F/V Aurora
khaos
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Re: New power troller looking for advice

Post by khaos »

What town are you running out of?
We have forum members all up and down our coast, and it will help us advise if we know where you plan on fishing.
As far as deckhands, you can almost always find a kid that just wants to fish and learn. We all start out like that, anything to get out on the water and chase fish. If you can't pay him much, he'll probably move on to the next offer, but I doubt there will be hard feelings as long as you are up front with him (or her).
Deckhands love fishing as much as their captains most of the time, and it isn't all about the money.
There are some very experienced trollers on this forum that can help you with specifics. Feel free to ask and you will usually get an honest reply. Not everyone will share, but that is understandable too. Overall, this forum is very useful for learning tricks of the trade, things to watch out for, good stories, trending techniques, and just good entertainment on the topics that we all so enjoy.
Let us know how you are doing and if we can help. On winter days we like to chat about how things are going or what we learned from the past season.
mattakfish
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Re: New power troller looking for advice

Post by mattakfish »

I'm out of Petersburg and thanks for asking. I hope to start winter fishing on the new boat by mid December (Unfortunately, I'm limited to the weekends until June)
I've been checking out the forum for a while. It's a great resource.
Matt on the F/V Aurora
Abundance
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Re: New power troller looking for advice

Post by Abundance »

Maybe when you close the deal, you could tell us the name of the boat? I'd like to be able to recognize it these coming seasons. Having hand trolled for a few seasons, you likely know most of the basics. It is a good idea to start out in the winter. You wont make any money, but because the stakes are low, you can afford to make a number of mistakes learning the ropes that you couldn't get by with in the summer rush. Better to learn how to work the power gurdies at one or two fish a day than with one or two hundred. As to gear, I personally began with just enough to get by (and sometimes not), and have built up from there for the last six years. You likely know what works for salmon already. They might not work as well for you power trolling, but they should do well enough to start. I am glad that I never hired a deckhand for the first five seasons. I learned how to do everything from icing to engine work, and didn't have to worry about keeping somebody else alive while I was struggling learning how to survive myself. I also felt free to take time off explore the hundreds of remote fjords and mountains that I visited in the first couple of years of trolling. With another guy on board, I feel compelled to work for some reason. Your the best judge of your own situation though. As to chartplotters, I've used Tiki nav, Maptech, Nobeltech, and SeaClear. I also use Marine Navigator on my Android cell phone. All will show you where you are at on a chart, where you are going and how fast you are getting there. I liked Maptech the best, but a new program of that will run $500. SeaClear is nice, because it is a free download. I have the complete charts of U.S. water on CD from Managing the Waterways.
Garrett Hagen, F/V Abundance
mattakfish
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Re: New power troller looking for advice

Post by mattakfish »

I think its OK to say I am buying the F/V Aurora - a 40 foot snobal w/671 jimmy. It's got three station hydraulic steering with Naud controls, a nice hayrack and a set of 2 spool hasbras. I like what you said about starting out alone. That's how I feel as well...I want to figure all this out for myself before I take on the responsibility of keeping another person safe. At the same time, I've also been told that if I find the right deckhand, it should add to the safety factor and make my operation more efficient and, hopefully, profitable. I don't know.......
Matt on the F/V Aurora
charger
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Re: New power troller looking for advice

Post by charger »

I used Nobelteck for a couple years, It was an old edition, real old, charts outdated. Replaced laptop and under advice from tender skipper went to Costal Exployer, the price is cheap, free updates for a year, comes with all nav charts from Alaska to California. Down falls, they don't yet have interface to sounder to map/update bottom contour,or three dimensional bottom. The program requires a non-prolific driver. From what I here they were too cheap to buy the licence for prolific driver. I really like mine, easy to plot and save multi waypoint courses, hotspots. On crew, I'm playing the devels advocate it depends it you plan on old man fishing or going full boar. The season is short I power troll from dawn to dusk, very long days in S.E. did it by myself my first year, after 3-4 weeks hard to climb in and out of the rack. I resemble the old man. I recommend get someone, green horn 8-10 % off the top, seasoned 12-15 %, after a couple years, and he changes oil, and can read your mind 20 % to keep him. Usually by yourself when you get those 100 to 150 coho days compared to with a puller will share the load and make them 250 - 350 days. It's all in the math. The quicker you can clean the lines, bleed, clean, and Ice, quicker you can repeat, more money. It's amazing how much better you feel at the end of the day when you have someone to share the load, driving crowded drags(winter line), wheel watch, icing, cleaning deck, shovel ice on and on. Your still burning the same fuel, cooking a little larger meal. Don't forget crew insurance don't leave the dock without it, if you do your crew might be the only one getting rich. What is the going rate on a hook in the eye? $100,000.00? As for gear, SPOON-BUCKET check out your neighbors, everyone has their own colors, sizes and leader lengthes. I collect used Mannites spoons at garage sales, strip-em, or lightly sandblast, then repaint with lure paint. Their good as new but better, lots of colors to choose from, gets me off the couch in the winter. Its kinda like tieing flys, lots of pride when the lines fill up using my creation. I wish you all the luck in your new endeavor, Fair winds and following seas.
tkbluefin
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Re: New power troller looking for advice

Post by tkbluefin »

During my first year in SE, I fished by myself and had a deckhand for 50% of the time. If you want to take it easy...by yourself is
good. However, I personally like to fish hard...the dawn to dust routine. It is very easy to run yourself into the ground. ..I have a hard
time stringing multiple 100-150 fish days in a row...that's me but others might be much more efficient. With a great deckhand last year
it was reasonable to string 8 200+ coho days in a row and still get up at the crack of dawn. I would recommend getting a deckhand. I am
optimistic about next year. There were many small coho at the end of the year and I think next year might be very good. It's a short summer
season...so maximize your revenue while you can. Crew insurance is about $500 per month but a necessity. You also might want to look
into joining the SPC. Good luck.
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Re: New power troller looking for advice

Post by Kodiakrain »

I'm curious about this one,...my first post here,
in the "Still lookin into it," phase of potential Power Trolling

Just one question to add, tkbluefin,..."what is the SPC,?"
imagining it is a Troller Organization of some sorts ?

Well, one more question, as to how much gear,...anybody have a number, (for budgeting the initial cost of start-up)
how many rigs,...spoons, etc. do you carry, to be a realistic, "Old Man Style," Troller ?
My baseline approach,..."If Anyone Thinks He Knows Anything,...He Knows Nothing Yet, As He Ought To Know,..."
afteryou
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Re: New power troller looking for advice

Post by afteryou »

with a new boat and new gear I think having somebody on the boat with you would be a good idea. Plus don't forget there is supposed to be lots of humpys this year. Don't write them off they can be quite profitable if you can move through them fast enough. They are also very easy to catch, just go slow, run some kind of flasher and put a hook behind it and you'll catch all you can handle. If you want to get fancy tie a little bit of yarn around the hook. If you want to get really fancy use a bug or a hoochie. :mrgreen:

On a side note you may think about adding mullions to the center of your front windows or maybe plexy covers. Congrats on the new boat and permit. I remember that time. It was a pretty cool feeling. :D
mydona
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Re: New power troller looking for advice

Post by mydona »

Gear- well min would be troll at 20 fms with 2 fm spreads = 11 hooks/line x 4. x's the lost gear/wk,day. I agree about the experienced crew worth an extra % pay
SCP? Seafood Producers Cooperative; http://www.spcsales.com/index.cfm
Last edited by mydona on Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
Salty
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Re: New power troller looking for advice

Post by Salty »

Acronyms are a unique language of their own. Here are a few commonly used here:

SPC: Seafood Producers Co-operative,
ATA: Alaska Trollers Association,
CTA: Chum Trollers Association,
ALFA: Alaska Longline Fisherman's Association,
NSRAA: Northern Southeast Regional Aquaculture Association,
SSRAA: Southern Southeast Regional Aquaculture Association,
USAG: United Southeast Alaska Gillnetters,
SEAS: Southeast Alaska Seiners,
SSS: Sitka Sound Seafoods,
NPFMC: North Pacific Fisheries Management Council:
BOF: Alaska Board of Fisheries,
@#$%&*: Trawlers,
ASMI: Alaska Seafood Marketing Institute,
UFA: United Fishermen of Alaska,
AC: Advisory Committee, there are 83 community Fish & Game advisory committees in the State of Alaska,
AP: Advisory Panel to the North Pacific Fisheries Management Council,
IPHC: International Pacific Halibut Commission,
ADF&G: Alaska Department of Fish & Game,
IFQ: Individual Fishing Quota, also referred to as Quota Shares (QS) or in BC sometimes as IQ, individual quota,
CFEC: Commercial Fisheries Entry Commission,
XIP: Excursion Inlet Packing, which is part of Ocean Beauty,
SEAGO: Southeast Alaska Guides Organization.

Enough for now. I once prepared a whole power point for a fisheries class on fisheries acronyms in Alaska. It can go on for pages.
Salty
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Re: New power troller looking for advice

Post by Salty »

So, Mydona, I am trying to figure out how to get 13 spreads on twenty fathoms of wire with 2 fathom marks?

Which brings up this by-line,
My baseline approach,..."If Anyone Thinks He Knows Anything,...He Knows Nothing Yet, As He Ought To Know,..."


Pretty much describes my trolling career. And then I got old and confusion entered the picture.

After 40 years of marriage I would amend this to: "If he thinks she doesn't know everything.......he knows nothing yet, as he ought to know."
afteryou
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Re: New power troller looking for advice

Post by afteryou »

"After 40 years of marriage I would amend this to: If he thinks she doesn't know everything.......he knows nothing yet, as he ought to know."

Love it ! :lol:
mydona
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Re: New power troller looking for advice

Post by mydona »

13, well 1 on top 1 on the lead and not to forget the whiskey line :lol: . I may have miss counted but I start most (IMO) "Well, I don't, and I ain't sayin' but I do know this" can give me a little wiggle room
afteryou
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Re: New power troller looking for advice

Post by afteryou »

My wife just said I "don't know nothing yet" :D
Kodiakrain
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Re: New power troller looking for advice

Post by Kodiakrain »

Salty wrote:Acronyms are a unique language of their own. Here are a few commonly used here:,....

Enough for now. I once prepared a whole power point for a fisheries class on fisheries acronyms in Alaska. It can go on for pages.
Is amazing how many of these are new to me, it's the Salmon aspect I think,...
I did start out in Southern SE, out of Ward Cove, deckhand on a Seiner/Longliner,...
the Ocean Queen, (I think it's the Viking Maid now)
but only fished Salmon for three years til '86

Now, with Aquaculture Associations, specific fish target Associations,...it's gettin' complicated
Thanks for these Salty

This my favorite, tho


@#$%&*: Trawlers,
Last edited by Kodiakrain on Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
My baseline approach,..."If Anyone Thinks He Knows Anything,...He Knows Nothing Yet, As He Ought To Know,..."
Journey
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Re: New power troller looking for advice

Post by Journey »

mattakfish wrote:-I am torn on whether to hire a deckhand for my first season since I will be figuring out a lot of things for the first time and I'm not sure a job on my boat will be worthwhile moneywise. I thought about offering a deal where the deckhand would get a flat amount guaranteed or 12% of gross, whichever turns out to be more. Not sure how much would be reasonable for a flat amount for a green deckhand. Or, I could just brave it on my own. Any thoughts?
Do you have any friends who might be interested in a two week vacation? Those make good deckhands when you're not sure if you need/can afford one. Paying for food and some/all of their travel costs is a good trade for a working vacation for many people. You get the added safty of having a second set of hands when things go wrong, and you discover how much you really do know when you teach others. Also, you don't have to deal with the stress of catching enough to keep a deckhand happy.
Laura
Salty
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Re: New power troller looking for advice

Post by Salty »

It would be nice to have a like symbol here. I like Journey's post.

Has worked for me. After my boys moved on (only to return off and on) I changed my deckhand philosophy from one of the same hands all season to rotating friends and relatives through. With few exceptions it has worked out wonderfully. I like hearing fresh stories and dealing with enthusiasm.
Salty
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Re: New power troller looking for advice

Post by Salty »

I was thinking about this. When I first started power trolling I took my family. It was a relative disaster dealing with sea sickness, a broken shaft off of Omaney, and my inadequacies, even though I had been trolling and fishing my whole life. The second season I went by myself for most of the season. I loved it and by the time I started taking the family again a few years later it was a much better experience for all of us.
Since I have aged and had other problems to deal with I take crew most of the time when production might be involved as I can't catch, clean, slush, and unload 200 coho a day, day after day, like I could years ago. Not that I ever caught that many day after day, but I could have handled it if I did. And, believe it or not, I had a few lucky stretches of production years ago. During the October/November and March/April seasons I mostly go by myself and love the peace that running a troller in SE Alaska by yourself away from the pack brings.
The thing to remember is that every crewmember is totally unique and while I have certain standards for the way we run the gear and an absolute safety first philosophy, I usually adapt to the strengths and weaknesses of the crewmember and let them flourish. For example: my mother loved running the drag and working gear but hated cleaning fish and scrubbing the deck. My wife absolutely hates steering but loves cleaning fish and keeping the deck clean as a whistle. So, I adjusted.
mattakfish
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Re: New power troller looking for advice

Post by mattakfish »

I have arranged (tentatively) for a relative to come up and fish with me for a month and a half. I plan to get them a ticket and pay them a regular crew share. They have no experience on boats, but they've always wanted to come up and stay for more than just a vacation.They may have to back-out depending on their job situation at home but it looks like they hope to make it. They are not expecting to make a mint....they are mainly interested in the experience. I gave them a rundown of the physical risks and economic uncertainties involved.
I wasn't sure I wanted to be responsible for another person on the boat while I figured everything else out......but I think they'll be capable and dependable.
Thanks again for all the advice. I've said it before, but I'll say it again....this forum is a wealth of information and I am very encouraged at how friendly and helpful so many people in the fleet have been (on-line and off)
Matt on the F/V Aurora
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