Commercial Salmon Trolling Forum

New to trolling and new to the site

A forum for people who are new to commercial fishing and for talking about the fundamental rules and regulations.

New to trolling and new to the site

Postby WRHardie » Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:39 am

Hello everyone, I'm a East Coast Tuna fisherman who got tired of the drama associated with the fishery and found a job trolling out of Sitka. Obviously the two are totally different but there are a few subtle similarities and I hope that through this site I can at least get an idea of what to expect. Thanks to all...




Bill
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Re: New to trolling and new to the site

Postby WRHardie » Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:05 am

Any of you guys familiar with Greenstick trolling?
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Re: New to trolling and new to the site

Postby Homeshore » Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:52 pm

Just looked it up. Looks like an effective system...... If the target species of fish is interested in lures trolled on the waters surface.
It might even be legal. The "bird" could be considered the cannonball.
I've often wondered why commercial salmon trolling technology hasn't fundamentally changed in a hundred years. The materials are better now, and some use quick-setters, but basically we're doing things exactly the same as our forefathers: snapping spreads on & off a small cable with a big cannonball at the bottom.
Maybe we should all hire Japanese deckhands for the summer. They seem to be the big innovators when it comes to fishing (greenstick, butterfly jigs, etc.).
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Re: New to trolling and new to the site

Postby Homeshore » Thu Apr 03, 2014 4:01 pm

I've sat down numerous times with pencil and paper and tried designing a system that doesn't require snapping spreads on & off the wire. Some kind of drum than can wind everything up without tangles. It would be a godsend for high volume chum fishing.
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Re: New to trolling and new to the site

Postby WRHardie » Thu Apr 03, 2014 7:28 pm

I was just trying to draw parallels, I've never fished gear like you guys fish before but the greenstick concept, aside from fishing the surface, seems relatively the same. I'm hoping the learning curve will not be steep considering the gear I'm used to.
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Re: New to trolling and new to the site

Postby akfish1 » Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:12 pm

WRHardie, you will do fine for sure. I have fished for a living for nearly 20 years from Florida to Costa Rica, Nicaragua and Alaska. The one thing I have learned is that people are fishy or they are not, simple as that. You can take any fisherman from Alaska who knows his stuff and send him to Maine or Spain and he will adapt! Or vice versa! Good Luck!
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Re: New to trolling and new to the site

Postby WRHardie » Fri Apr 04, 2014 7:04 am

Roger that Akfish1, you either belong on deck or back on the dock!
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Re: New to trolling and new to the site

Postby Drew » Sat Apr 05, 2014 7:46 am

Homeshore wrote:I've sat down numerous times with pencil and paper and tried designing a system that doesn't require snapping spreads on & off the wire. Some kind of drum than can wind everything up without tangles. It would be a godsend for high volume chum fishing.


You need a setup that winds everything on and runs through a Crucifier for mass humpy fishing.
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Re: New to trolling and new to the site

Postby WRHardie » Wed Apr 09, 2014 5:45 am

This is probably a stupid question and I'm guessing it may have been covered before, so forgive my ignorance but has anyone ever tried to use heavy mono in place of cable? For instance 500lb Lindgren Pitman, I understand the cable has less drag and would obviously require less scope to get to the desired depth but mono has some stretch that I can't help but think would be a benefit when fishing heavy. Another thing I don't quite understand is the angle of your outriggers, or trolling poles? From what I've seen in photos of trollers they look to be set at a 45 degree angle, wouldn't the spread be maximized by dropping them lower to the water and also help out with stability when the time comes to drop the birds?
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Re: New to trolling and new to the site

Postby Drew » Wed Apr 09, 2014 8:17 am

The stainless wire helps create a larger weak elecrical field around the boat, which supposedly helps catch more fish. It's difficult to quantify how much of an effect this is.

You could certainly drop your poles lower, but you would need to beef everything up. It seems like dropping them down to horizontal like on the east coast draggers and long liners would put a lot more stress on everything, especially where the poles are attached to the hull. You wouldn't be able to pull your poles by hand any more either.
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Re: New to trolling and new to the site

Postby WRHardie » Thu Apr 10, 2014 5:45 am

Interesting about the wire and the electrical field it creates. I understand the stress factors regarding lowering the poles but back east the outriggers are massive in comparison, some are steel but most are aluminum and quite a few of the boats I've worked on had no winches aside from a good block and tackle and a set of gloves. Then again the trolling poles are significantly longer so I guess you get more of a lever working against you. Thanks for the reply
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Re: New to trolling and new to the site

Postby Once and Future » Sat Apr 12, 2014 4:30 am

WR: One reason guys configure there poles up high is that if you get in really bad seas the huge waves can engulf a pole when the boat is rolling hard. I am told the Canadians tend to run their poles a bit flatter than the Alaskans and I wonder if the Alaskans have learned the hard way on that. Although, Canadian waves would be just as fierce as Alaskan, right?

Which leads me into something else. One of my favorite things I have probably mentioned before: "Empirical Engineering". I learned this term when reading about old steam locomotives. It means that after a machine was designed on paper, manufactured, and operated for many years, the Engineers (the kind with the stripy hat on that actually run the train) would use their wise eyes to see improvements that could be made. These suggested changes would be adopted, and at that point you would have a machine that was truly "state of the art".

I mention that, in all good nature, in response to your question about running mono instead of stainless wire. I respectfully suggest that when you are learning the ropes, you don't waste energy by questioning the basic fundamentals. It is fun and rewarding to do that once you have some experience. But I have made an ass out of myself more than once in life by getting some cockamamie idea and acting on it, only to find a very simple problem I overlooked that became very obvious once I put my inventions into use after weeks of work.

And now I go off on a tangent on one of my pet peeves. My wife; my brother; my friends; hell, EVERYBODY; when I let them accompany me on a task they are unfamiliar with, all do the following: They feel they are so clever, they just can't help but cock their head to one side, and with a knowing smile, say: "You silly! Why don't you just do it this other way that is obviously simpler?" In other words, "How come your so effin dumb?" Never mind that hundreds of fisherman have been doing it that way for a hundred years. They blow in from the midwest and are so conceited that they think they can straighten us all out in a matter of minutes. Now its OK to do that, I guess. But I now ask that they hold off on improving my operations until a respectful amount of time. I suggest they at least wait until the jet that brought them has left the airport, as a minimum rule of thumb. :)
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Re: New to trolling and new to the site

Postby SilverT » Sat Apr 12, 2014 7:17 am

Once and future,

You described me far too well in the last sentence of the third paragraph :D I can well relate to instantly wanting to improve things and there's been nothing wrong with it so far other than the great suffering it's caused me. Mom used to tell me she had no idea how much she didn't know until she went to college. I feel the same way every time I get on someone's boat and they begin to share how and why. The looks and comments you described in your fourth paragraph were of great comfort to me. I thought only my relatives did that.

WRHardie, your questioning and analysis may result in some really great empirically engineered ideas and I hope you improve the industry by being truly generous with them. I suspect you're going to really enjoy the season and thanks for your participation here.

May your holds be filled,

Lane
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Re: New to trolling and new to the site

Postby WRHardie » Sat Apr 12, 2014 6:55 pm

No worries, I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel but curiosity kills the cat. If I never asked I might not have found out about the electrical field, which is pretty cool info. As for the poles again just curiosity, I'm not saying one way is better or anything like that.

Yessir Lane! I'm sure I will, I don't think I can handle another summer of wicked tuna wannabes more concerned with their satphone reception than they are about filling the box, it'll be good to get away from the Atlantic for a spell, learn a new fishery and meet some new people! Thanks again for the replies, I hope in a few years time I might be able to answer some questions instead of just asking them! ;)
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Re: New to trolling and new to the site

Postby Drew » Sun Apr 13, 2014 5:13 am

That being said... When I watch Wicked Tuna I feel like there's a lot of things I would do different if I was over there.
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Re: New to trolling and new to the site

Postby WRHardie » Sun Apr 13, 2014 9:27 am

It used to be a profitable and really fun way to earn a living but its just a circus anymore. Its driven the price of used boats sky high and the price of fish way down. This fall under the GenCat permit kooks can land 3 swords, making even more of a circus atmosphere, its just a mess!
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Re: New to trolling and new to the site

Postby WRHardie » Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:44 pm

Two weeks till my flight to Sitka, I'm about as antsy as it gets!
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Re: New to trolling and new to the site

Postby akfish1 » Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:57 pm

Awesome, good luck and hope you have fun ! Let us know how it works out.
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