Commercial Salmon Trolling Forum

Another Rookie Question

A forum for people who are new to commercial fishing and for talking about the fundamental rules and regulations.

Another Rookie Question

Postby joeman79 » Sun Mar 30, 2014 4:01 am

The last 3 years I spent time deck handing, watching all the boats go by and a lot of Trollers have a Crab or Shrimp pot on top of the House or Hayrack. What are the regulations regarding this subject. Is there a permit you have to obtain? Just wondering thanks for any response.
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Re: Another Rookie Question

Postby fveureka » Sun Mar 30, 2014 6:18 am

Joe, some call these dinner pots and sport regs/license would cover putting them out. I also have a commercial shrimp license, and if an area is open I can put out one or several pots. I carry 5 just to prospect and find the shrimp until an opener. Other regs are considered, such as how the buoys are marked so to cover the rules I have a small low drag with my Adf&g numbers with a trailing buoy with my name, boat name, registration number and phone number per the personal/sport use rules and carry a sport fishing license.

Oh, couple suggestions...do not set them in an anchorage such as Deer harbor etc. or on the drag, some guy will be very unhappy having to cut a pot out of the wheel or troll gear
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Re: Another Rookie Question

Postby akfish1 » Sun Mar 30, 2014 7:19 am

Joe, I could be way off here but take this into consideration. Shrimping/Crabbing is considered sport fishing since it is done under an ADFG sportfish License. There has been a lot of confusion on the regs about sportfishing from your boat on this site. I read the regs myself then called the Troll Biologist to confirm my understanding and they did just that. First, you can legally sportfish from a troller. You can not sportfish from a troller and commercial fish in the same day. Second, you can not sportfish from a troller in an area unopen to commercial trolling. So basicly if you want to sportfish, legally, you have to give up a day of trolling. Reason I posted this is that every trooper is different, some are great who try to be informative and use common sense then there are others who you can tell within the first 5 words you are going to have a problem. I keep a Crab Pot with me and use it while traveling to and from areas. Just is not worth the risk to me.
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Re: Another Rookie Question

Postby Salty » Sun Mar 30, 2014 8:07 am

For many years licensed trollers were not allowed to sport fish for salmon off of our commercially licensed vessel. We either waited to license the vessel until after our sport harvest, went on another vessel, or got ourselves a 6-pac charter license and chartered ourselves. Years ago now I proposed and the Alaska Board of Fisheries adopted, by a 4-3 vote, a regulation allowing us to sport fish salmon off of our commercial trollers. The wording is not exactly what I proposed but it is good enough and I have been sport fishing for years since. As you can see, contrary to the previous post, which is understandable without carefully reading the regulation, you can sport fish salmon from your commercially licensed salmon vessel in waters closed to commercial salmon fishing. You have to immediately remove the the dorsal fin and follow all the other requirements.

Here is the regulation:

A person sport fishing from a vessel licensed for
commercial salmon fishing shall immediately mark
harvested salmon by removing its dorsal (large back)
fin when fishing in waters closed to commercial
salmon fishing. This marking requirement doesn't
apply to commercial vessels that are also registered
as charter vessels when paying clients are on board.
• Sport fishing from a commercially licensed vessel
while commercially caught salmon are in possession
is illegal in waters closed to commercial salmon
fishing.
• A person may not sport fish and commercial fish for
salmon from the same vessel on the same day.
• A person may not possess unpreserved sport caught
salmon on any commercial salmon vessel while
engaged in commercial salmon fishing.
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Re: Another Rookie Question

Postby akfish1 » Sun Mar 30, 2014 8:38 am

Salty, how to you think the Crab/ Shrimp Pot would come in to play with Troopers? Also what do you know about survival suits during personal say a hunting trip? Kelper asked under regs column but no responses yet.
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Re: Another Rookie Question

Postby akfish1 » Sun Mar 30, 2014 8:48 am

OK just read last springs regs which are put out yearly to refresh my memory. Like I was told from Sitka office. Sportfishing for salmon from registered commercial vessel in waters closed to commercial fishing is illiegal if you have commercial caught salmon on board regardless of removing fins.
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Re: Another Rookie Question

Postby joeman79 » Sun Mar 30, 2014 9:10 am

Yes that is what I was wondering I understand the Rod and Reel Regulations but was unable to to locate anything about Crab and Shrimp. But thanks for all the replies. I had fresh Dungie on the F/V ZONTA a couple summers ago and it was amazing and would like to throw a pot in once in awhile. Getting pretty pumped up to head up May 28th and do a little work on the Boat and head out. Hope to see some of you there.
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Re: Another Rookie Question

Postby akfish1 » Sun Mar 30, 2014 9:28 am

Yeah Joe good luck! Just take that into consideration since it is considered sportfishing.
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Re: Another Rookie Question

Postby fveureka » Sun Mar 30, 2014 10:10 am

Akfish, the troopers, park service, fish and wildlife protection who look for any safety issues will use the USCG (BOJAK) boarding rules. I looked at Kepler's question and so any rules that apply for documented and or/state registered commercial vessels up to 26 feet, 26 to 40 and 40 on up will be looked at when boarded for a safety inspection. The lead USCG boarding officer here in Juneau gave me a copy and I really have to get cracking as I have somethings that will terminate my voyage and send me back to port and a few that will result in warnings. Having life jackets for everyone is prudent, but if his boat is documented as a commercial fishing boat then he will need a survival suit for everyone on board is how I am reading the rules.

Maybe someone from AMSEA could chip in a comment on that one too.
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Re: Another Rookie Question

Postby Salty » Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:19 pm

akfish1 wrote:OK just read last springs regs which are put out yearly to refresh my memory. Like I was told from Sitka office. Sportfishing for salmon from registered commercial vessel in waters closed to commercial fishing is illiegal if you have commercial caught salmon on board regardless of removing fins.


This is correct, I didn't see the "if ".....in your original post.
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Re: Another Rookie Question

Postby Once and Future » Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:37 pm

It is apparent to me, by reading the rules that Salty posted, that the concern with sport fishing off a salmon boat is as follows: The state is concerned commercial trollers might pretend to sport fish in closed areas or seasons so they could then sell the fish they caught as commercially taken when they get to port. To his credit, Salty did us all a favor by finding a way for us to innocently sport fish salmon from our boats when that is our desire.

Now how do special rules for sport fishing salmon have anything to do with personal use crab or shrimp pots? I think there is no correlation because no one is going to sell one pot's worth of shrimp or crab just because they were on a commercial vessel when they caught them. How could a guy with one crab pot out be "up to no good" in a judge's eye?

And if some trooper keeps hauling people in for minor stuff the equivalent of the license plate light being burned out on your pickup, eventually the judge pulls him aside and tells him to quit wasting the court's time.
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Re: Another Rookie Question

Postby Kelper » Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:47 pm

One thing is for certain, you don't want to run afoul of the law on shrimp/crab issues. They'll write you up, and haul you into court in an instant on that issue. Many a charter fishermen has learned a painful lesson on shrimp/crab if they don't do everything to the letter of the law. For that reason, I don't even touch that stuff. But as it was mentioned, certain troopers look for certain things. Most troopers probably won't care. But, get the wrong trooper, and it will cost you dearly, and chances are you'll have to cut a trip short to go visit the judge.

It'd be really nice for trollers to legally retain crab/shrimp and a small amount of fish for onboard consumption.
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Re: Another Rookie Question

Postby akfish1 » Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:55 pm

Once and Future. You are very right about Judges. I chartered for 15 years and about my 10th year I was on the second day of a 5 day trip and as we were being borded my client was reeling up a Yellow Eye which must be recorded immediately. I had his license number logged in the ADFG logbook as required but the guy forgot the license in his room but didnt realize it at the time. So with Trooper now on board I ask the client to give his license so I could record it thats when he realized he forgot it in his room. I was cited with a misdemeanor for aiding in the kill of an illiegaly caught fish. I fought it and won in court. I was so happy that the Judge treated me with respect and treated the officer like he was being stupid and wasting the courts time. My case was thrown out. I had a perfect zero ticket record then and still do today. I did learn something that day though and it was to the first day of a multiple day trip put the licenses in a bag and I kept them until their last day was done.
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Re: Another Rookie Question

Postby Trnaround » Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:34 pm

It's a shame the laws can't make sense and be clear, it's a sad situation when the outcome is in the hands of the mood of the judge or trooper. I had a trooper board me one time and he had to duck under a line as he came aboard and his cell phone fell out of his shirt pocket and in the water it went. Sploosh. My first thought was uh oh he is not going to be a happy fellow but he had a sense of humor which was good because I was holding back a laugh. Anyway he was very professional and it ended well. Thanks for bringing up the sport fishing crab thing that is something to get right.
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Re: Another Rookie Question

Postby Drew » Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:40 pm

I'm not very fond of the troopers. They treat fisherman like we are criminals waiting to break the law any time they are not around. I was ticketed for being over the line in a spring area where they modified the line 3 days before the opener and didn't announce it in any way that was accessible to me as I was already out fishing. There were about 20 boats fishing the wrong line, but they only ticketed 2. They didn't want it to be obvious to the judge that the error wasn't with the fishermen. I just paid the fine as having to make arrangements to be in town for the court date would cost me more money with no guarantee of winning.
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Re: Another Rookie Question

Postby akfish1 » Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:07 pm

Drew, if I remember you are from Petersburg? Your local guy is the one who so poorly treated me but in the end I came out winning! Except for the lawyer fees anyway! Its a shame we have to pay to defend ourselves when they are so quick to say " tell it to the Judge"!
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Re: Another Rookie Question

Postby Drew » Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:58 am

No it was in Sitka. I have heard stories about the trooper from petersburg.
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