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Isolating gurdies

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Isolating gurdies

Postby DWL » Fri Jan 30, 2015 8:51 pm

I recently purchased a 28 foot fiberglass troller. I was curious how many of you guys use non-conductive hydraulic lines to your gurdies and if you use insolators to isolated your gurdies from the deck mounts. Thanks
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Re: Isolating gurdies

Postby Salty » Sun Feb 01, 2015 3:56 pm

Both
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Re: Isolating gurdies

Postby DWL » Sun Feb 01, 2015 8:10 pm

Do you changes line zincs out or change the length of your break aways to control the voltage of your lines? Not trying to get to technical just trying to straighten out a few brain worms
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Re: Isolating gurdies

Postby Crawfish » Mon Feb 02, 2015 6:07 am

Most guy's use the break away method as it carries a more repeatable current than a zinc. If you need a big reduction in line voltage more than .2 of a volt use the line zinc.
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Re: Isolating gurdies

Postby DWL » Mon Feb 02, 2015 7:28 am

The way I understand it, a well bonded fiberglass hull should put off the same voltage throughout a season?
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Re: Isolating gurdies

Postby Salty » Mon Feb 02, 2015 8:00 pm

False DWL. All kinds of things can affect your voltage:
The depth of wire you are fishing;
The length of your straps from wire to lead;
The condition of your leads and or wire,
The salinity of the water;
The combination of zincs and metal Under the boat, and their condition;
Leaks from bilge pumps and high water sensors;
Faulty speed sensor on your transducer;
Corrosion and leakage from innumerable wire connections
Broken shaft brush.
To name just a few of the ones I have experienced.
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Re: Isolating gurdies

Postby Crawfish » Tue Feb 03, 2015 11:44 am

Salty wrote:False DWL. All kinds of things can affect your voltage:
The depth of wire you are fishing;
The length of your straps from wire to lead;
The condition of your leads and or wire,
The salinity of the water;
The combination of zincs and metal Under the boat, and their condition;
Leaks from bilge pumps and high water sensors;
Faulty speed sensor on your transducer;
Corrosion and leakage from innumerable wire connections
Broken shaft brush.
To name just a few of the ones I have experienced.


That's the one I seem to fight the most.
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Re: Isolating gurdies

Postby JKD » Tue Feb 03, 2015 12:26 pm

I agree with both Salty & Crawfish on the listed items affecting change in your line voltage. A few others come to mind:

Build-up of conducting material (grass, seaweed, gurry, jellyfish) on gurdy mounts that can defeat the isolation system you have devised;
Type of Material used for straps between wires and leads;
Condition of straps between wires and leads (whether or not they are saturated with salt);
Storing leads in a metallic cannonball holder without isolating leads from holder;
Intermittant grounding of system by allowing trolling wire to touch the side of the boat while hauling or setting-out the line in a strong cross-current.

A quality digital multi-tester is a troller's best friend. If you don't have one - get one. If you don't understand how to use one - get a "refresher course" from someone familiar with testing for DC current. Good luck.
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Re: Isolating gurdies

Postby Salty » Tue Feb 03, 2015 6:50 pm

Like JKD post.
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Re: Isolating gurdies

Postby tunaddict » Wed Feb 04, 2015 7:18 pm

Has any body ever fiber glassed the inside of the gurdies? When I bought the boat, the gurdies had been taken completely apart and glassed on the spools. I have left it alone, thinking that some one with a lot more experience than me had a hot hunch. no pun intended.
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Re: Isolating gurdies

Postby Trnaround » Thu Feb 05, 2015 7:21 am

Not an expert here but seems like that would tend to isolate the wire from the gurdies, so if you have a black box and want to control the voltage on your wires it would interfere with it. Isolating the gurdies from the hayrack and hydraulic hoses just prevents stray currents from interfering with your line voltage but I think you want that contact of the wire to the gurdie. If your boat is fishing well though don't mess with it. If you wanted to experiment though you could attach a jumper from your wire to the gurdie after you let your gear out and see if it makes a positive difference. Do you fish with a black box?
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Re: Isolating gurdies

Postby Crawfish » Thu Feb 05, 2015 12:28 pm

JKD wrote:I agree with both Salty & Crawfish on the listed items affecting change in your line voltage. A few others come to mind:

Build-up of conducting material (grass, seaweed, gurry, jellyfish) on gurdy mounts that can defeat the isolation system you have devised;
Type of Material used for straps between wires and leads;
Condition of straps between wires and leads (whether or not they are saturated with salt);
Storing leads in a metallic cannonball holder without isolating leads from holder;
Intermittant grounding of system by allowing trolling wire to touch the side of the boat while hauling or setting-out the line in a strong cross-current.

A quality digital multi-tester is a troller's best friend. If you don't have one - get one. If you don't understand how to use one - get a "refresher course" from someone familiar with testing for DC current. Good luck.



Emphasis on quality. You don't want to be like me and use your free coupon Harbor Freight multi meter :lol:

Something like a nice Fluke is in order.
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Re: Isolating gurdies

Postby Lulu » Fri Feb 06, 2015 3:48 pm

Wow, everyone is dead on target. Isolate the gurdies off the deck with high density plastic, preferably UV stabilized. Isolate gurdies from standing wave current traveling along the hydraulic line with non-conductive hose. High pressure side is mandatory, but I use 1 foot hose on high and low pressure side on both gurdies just to make sure. Water tight the deck fittings with SikaFlex, silicon based sealants will not hold up. Use nylon or fiberglass bolts, do not use SS bolts. Fiberglass is stronger and UV stable. Nylon bolts are good for a season or two. Be careful not to over tighten the bolts.

You want the dissimilar metals (brass gurdies vs SS wire) to work. I clean and polish the spools every season to make sure there is a good electrical connection. A trick is to drill a #10 hole in the spool base, bend the wire 180 degrees, and slightly tighten the wire to the spool base with a sheet metal screw. That makes sure the electrical connection is good and its easier to start the wire onto the gurdie spool. Also, apply a thin film of Never Seize in the bottom of the spool drum. This will prevent corrosion and help assure electrical conductivity (graphite in the Never-seize conducts current).

Hull potential and line voltage will change as the season progresses. See reasons above. Record you readings after you prepare the boat for the season so you have a base line to make adjustments as the season progresses. Keep on top of it. Thoroughly wash the gurdies down with fresh water every time you get a chance. I know boats that carry a 55 gal drum of fresh water just for this purpose. They wash the gurdies down every night. I think this is a little over board, but I'm not arguing with their success.

Line zincs are used to drive line voltage down into the .3 volt range. You have to have line voltage of at least .50 to .60 for kings and higher for silvers and pinks. Never fish in the .400s, salmon don't like it. There is a range (.33-.37 volts) that can be productive, especially for bigger fish. But you have to start with the base line .5-.6. Be aware, line voltage at the dock is not the same as when trolling. You're going to lose some voltage while trolling because the forward motion of the boat through the water knocks off electrons as they travel down the wire toward the lead.

I agree, don't buy the cheapest voltmeter. It's too import to production and saving your boat.
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Re: Isolating gurdies

Postby SilverT » Fri Feb 06, 2015 7:46 pm

Thanks folks, very helpful.

Lane
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Re: Isolating gurdies

Postby tunaddict » Sat Feb 07, 2015 5:06 pm

Last year was my first year as a troller. I fish Ore. The boat seem to keep up with 75% of the fleet during our day to day conversations with other boats. I have a box on the boat, but didn't ever hook it up. Now that I read this site like it was the bible, I think the box might have kept me checking on what the upper 25% are doing. However it was enough just not to hit another boat in the fog, to keep the crab gear off my lines and to quit paying the lead supplier so much. I will play with the box on one side this year see what difference it can make. Great thread I read this one over and over. I cant believe I could catch any fish at all. Stainless bolts, no plastic, regular hydro lines, no box and most importantly, not a clue as to what the hell I was doing. Maybe this year with a few more details attended to, I can get just a few more fish. Just a few. Just a few
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Re: Isolating gurdies

Postby Salty » Sat Feb 07, 2015 6:27 pm

Great comments, I agree Lulu. I wash my gurdies with FW every time I tie up and or unload.
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Re: Isolating gurdies

Postby Trnaround » Sun Feb 08, 2015 8:10 am

tunaddict, you would be well advised to make those changes to your set up, but if you don't try setting your black box at 0.6 (for kings) let your gear out then take a wire with alligator clips on each end and clip one side to the wire and the other end to the rim of your gurdie's spool contacting the metal. Maybe do that on one side see if it makes a difference. If it does take the jumpers off and try the other side, you should be able to get an idea if it is helping. Of course that's assuming the box is hooked up right. It would be an easy experiment but I think you have the right idea, first get comfortable with running your boat safely. Good fishing
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Re: Isolating gurdies

Postby Scotthmt » Sun Feb 08, 2015 9:00 am

I used PVC 3/8 all thread to bolt my gurdies down, they're sitting on 1x1x1 blocks of starboard sealed with sikaflex and connected together with a #10 wire. I do say though the plastic bolts make me feel uneasy. I have 2 spool hasbras so there are 6 mounting points. They appear very secure but plastic bolts have a hard time sitting right with me. I suppose even if they ripped off the hydro line would stop it from going overboard for a bit.
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Re: Isolating gurdies

Postby Lulu » Sun Feb 08, 2015 12:34 pm

I share your concerns regarding "plastic bolts." But over the years and many crab pots and reefs, I have yet to rip the gurdies off the deck, yet. ( have bent a davit to the deck on one reef without loosing the gurdies) The reason I searched for a better fastner was every year I had to replace the nylon bolts because they became brittle due to the sun, or I'ld strip them when I tightened them. I found the fiberglass bolts on the McMaster-Carr's web site (phone number is 562-692-5911, they don't have a toll free number). You can google McMaster-Carr.

The part number for the 3/8 X 2" bolt is 91345A703. Enter that number in their search engine and the enter page for all fiberglass bolts will appear. Suggest using their fiberglass "flanged hex nut"; part number 98945A041. It is deeper than the common nut giving you more thread to hold the bolt when stressed and has a built in washer.

Regarding a black box: My feeling is the BB pays for itself in a scratch. In a strong to heavy bite, the BB is not going to add to productivity. When you're down to 1 or 2 a wire and its slow, the BB (if everything is optimal) will increase the number of bites. BUT, using the BB adds to the number of things you have to consider and WILL drive you nuts. My suggestion for someone learning the industry or with a new boat is "tend to the boat first" and make sure it fishes well. Then try the BB in the slow periods. I am a firm believer in the black box and I know its made me a lot of money over the years. On the other hand, it has caused a lot of time on trouble shooting and trying to find the right voltage for the day.
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Re: Isolating gurdies

Postby Salty » Sun Feb 08, 2015 8:32 pm

I just swapped out a set of 3 spool EH gurdies after 3 or 4 years attached with 4" by 1/2 inch nylon bolts today. These were attached vertically to my gear shed so the gurdies were hanging on the bolts. In that time one forward most bolt broke and I replaced it immediately. The old bolts looked fine today but I put on the new gurdies with new bolts after reading the posts here. I think we broke four bolts tightening them and we knew to be gentle.
If they had been available today I would have tried the fbglass bolts. I have a bonafide highline friend who has his attached with nylon bolts similar to mine for several years with no problems.
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