Self rescue ladder

[kjwelder]

Thank you Adrian for sharing your story. (Off topic section under "We all miss Garrett Haggen")
Your recap Garrett's death has motivated me to advance an idea that I've had for a few years.
I think that there are many reasons that commercial boats should be required to have a semi- permanent self rescue boarding ladder mounted on the stern.
I know that additional regulations are never popular, but without requirements I know the fleet will not adopt additional safety equipment. I think that with some help drafting a proposal to the board of fish we could craft a rule that would prevent many accidents without creating unnecessary effort or cost on the fishermen.
Does anyone have any input on such a ladder?
Karl

[JYDPDX]

I had a nasty response to this typed up, but upon reflection and with the spirit of Garret present and in mind, I have deleted it.

They are a great idea, I didn't need one on my old boat, I don't know if my new boat should have one yet. I think it should be a choice.

[Salty]

Great idea Karl, I am not so sure mandatory is the way to go initially. With this Republican Congress it would be impossible anyway. I do think development of prototypes and the installation on boats and a couple of stories of survival would lead to increased adoption and eventually widespread use on boats where they would help.
I think we lost Garret and nearly lost a couple of other people this year in SE where this kind of device could have made a difference. In my lifetime in SE Alaska I can think of numerous instances where this kind of device could have made a difference. In particular the case of the Petersburg fishermen who used his belt to attach himself to his hull as he died of hypothermia.

[curmudgeon]

Rope Ladder: I posted this idea a while back when folks were talking about life jackets and what handheld VHF/GPS gear to put in the pockets. A gillnetter friend, Dave on Rosemarie showed me his. He has one on each side of the boat. They can hang into the water at all times and won't beat up the boat. Easy to make: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEXttVyT1A4
I folded our ladder up a bit so it was just out of the water but could be easily grabbed, and used some tiny zip-ties to secure it so it would fully deploy when grabbed.

[ericv]

I am glad this thread has come alive again as it is worthy to explore things that we can do to increase our chance of survival and also reduce the risk to those who come to rescue us. I am a single hand fisherman who has family and friends that really want me to return alive (most of the time). I have taken this and other single hand safety issues on with extreme seriousness.

While regulation would mandate the safety change, I agree as noted by Eric, the climate for such is toxic. I do believe as a group we observe and replicate what others have done and/or experienced regarding our safety at sea. Hence this forum of Jon's has done more for all of us than what can be measured.

Two types of homebuilt systems can/should be considered. One active while engaged in trolling, another deployed prior to anchoring or non-moving operations.

Anyone who has trolled near me has seen what I drag approximately 50' aft, between the sheer boards. Right now it is a 4' used knee board with poly line that has knots tied into it every 2 feet (better grasp, grip and pull). This leads to two ropes that have heavy 2" PVC drain pipe utilized as rungs. Ultimately this whole set up is fastened high up on the aft portion of the hayrack. It has not interfered with working the floats or tangled on turns. I have a grab rope across the knee board and a trailing 2 foot section with 3 shackles to add drag for reduced entanglements. Ultimately a full length surf board is what I want for more surface to lay on and better chances to pull myself hand over hand while laying on it until I reach the rungs.

Now full disclosure - This has only been tested at the dock with vessel secured, in forward gear to replicate the several knot prop wash we all would have to fight against. This does not add the knots one would be trolling at or sea conditions. I wear a close fitting PFD 100% while onboard other than at secure anchor or sleeping. Given all this, it did work and it was no small feat with added weight of boots, clothes etc. I will say the PFD aided MASSIVELY in my ability to gain the knee board, all my strength was dedicated to get on board as opposed to fighting to keep from going under. Bear strongly in mind the cold water shock that hits, inhaled sea water and a river current pushing you rapidly aft.

The 2" heavy PVC drain pipe held my soaked weight just fine, however a 68" dressed halibut is the same weight as me. For those with more "ballast and/or beam" might need a different lightweight, yet strong rung option. I initially used rope braided in as my rungs. I found as soon (or if) I could get my boot into one, the others collapsed down due to weight and downward pull to such a degree that I could not secure the next step.

For decades and even still, folks towed a small tender behind for these overboard events. A good option still if - you can gain it without capsizing or have enough strength. My concern was if my towed tender took a wave over it while trolling or worse yet when the seas are heavy and single hands are full. That is why I opted for the used knee board but want to upgrade to the used 6 to 8 foot surf board. Those with a crewmembers will find all this easier to solve and work through.

Now lastly is for anchoring or non-moving operations. Before I even think of heading to the bow to drop anchor, or if I am stationary for any length or time, I deploy a ladder made with the same PVC pipe rungs and poly line. Off the bottom are (2) 1 foot shots of small chain to keep it hanging down. This is quick to access and secured on a mid ship cleat. THEN, I go forward and work the anchor gear. Biggest issue is me leaving anchorage bleary eyed in the dark to head to the drag and hearing some odd banging on the side of our troller - simply forgot to swing it aboard before leaving - no harm, no foul.

One final measure, I do secure a mooring line from my mid ship cleat to aft cleat on both sides. It is not stretched tight, I tie it so there is a sag (curve) that rides a few inches above the active water line. It is there 100% once I leave the dock. The means is to have just one more option for something to grab and hopefully get enough purchase or leverage to gain the boat. You see this set up on all USCG small vessels.

This has been a long message by me but we all know people who died due to these types of events. Not to be weird or fatalistic, I truly sit on deck and think through the "what if's" and what to do when "what if" happens. I even have a 1.5 ton chain hoist for my boom to retrieve a person knowing there's no way in hell with my back to lift a water logged person aboard.

In memory of Garrett and those who have passed before him, lets keep this thread going. We are all in this together and somebody, somewhere, really does want us to come home. For you single handers like me. Take this on in earnest please.

Good safe holidays, fair seas, light winds and fat Kings to you all.
Eric F/V New Hope Sitka

[Salty]

I wish there were likes on this site. Like Eric's post.

[Trnaround]

Great posts, definitely need a ladder to get back on board if you fall in and are lucky enough to get back to the vessel. Even getting back in with a ladder and assistance could be a challenge depending on physical condition size of the person, and length of time in the water. If fishing alone or in rough conditions a tether is an option also to prevent going overboard in the first place. There are inflatable life vests that have a built in harness and a ring attach point. Sort of a hassle stepping over the cord but just a little extra insurance to consider.

[ericv]

I realize this post of mine may not be in the best or preferred forum. I feel those who commented before and after have excellent points that could use maximum exposure. I especially like the photos uploaded of the braided rope ladder in the above post. There is Troller Talk and an thread about Garrett. If Jon or any of you are tech savvy enough to move this Rescue Ladder thread to a different, more exposure wide category it would be great in my opinion. Ultimately, Jon should or might be the best guidance on this. My "cut and paste" skills still to this day are a pair of scissors and some type of glue.
Eric V

[Once and Future]

Promoting rescue ladder design and use is great. Promoting more mandatory regulations is not great.

Salty mentioned in a different post mentioned the names of three trollers who are calling it quits. They have added it all up and it apparently just isn't worth it anymore to them. I understand completely. I also understand how frustrating it is to lose Garrett in such a simple way. But I don't think fisherman foisting more regulations on to themselves is appropriate in an environment in which many trollers are already going by the wayside.

Ultimately, you can't propose enough regulations to outlaw death. It's going to get us all someday. I prefer to live with the greatest amount of liberty until that inevitable moment.

[Drew]

There really isn't any excuse for any of us. Even just a single loop with a piece of hose to keep it open would help a lot.

[Salty]

For 13 years I hosted an interview show about outdoor activities. I had the opportunity to interview CG pilots and crew. When I think of the heroic efforts these men and women make to save us when we screw up, often risking their own lives, I favor changes that make their efforts more about saving lives than finding bodies.

[Kelper]

A self rescue ladder is on the list of about 50 more things I need to do before march. One thing is for sure.. it's expensive taking these older boats and making them safe again. It's no wonder why a lot of these boats get neglected for years and years.

I'm curious that if in the future, if there would be any mitigation funds, or any funds in general for trollers to make safety improvements on their vessels, and get some sort of "rebate" like many other programs out there. (I'm going through the AK Rebate for energy efficiency right now on the house) I think it would be a great use of funds, and keep the troll fleet trolling for generations to come. Not enough money in trolling for us to be commissioning new boats to the fleet, so we have to keep patching up the ones we've got.

[Salty]

Not enough money in trolling for us to be commissioning new boats to the fleet, so we have to keep patching up the ones we've got.

Very perceptive, and only a few are making enough to keep up on the maintenance and improvements.

[kjwelder]

Thanks for the responses.
I knew no one would publicly support any additional safety regulations. I did receive some private encouragement though.
I know that without a requirement most boats including mine will not have a self rescue ladder installed. Oh well...

[John Murray]

Thanks for getting these subjects out there kj.Already some good thoughts has been generated.That process is getting us closer to the goal of one less death in the fleet.

[Once and Future]

OK, KJ, I will bite. Why would you not install a rescue ladder on your own boat unless it is made a law?

[kjwelder]

I probably wont get around to it.

[Trnaround]

The rope ladder got my interest, so I tuned in to "you tube" and followed the instructions and made one. It turned out pretty good although the spacing isn't perfect between rungs and getting the rungs parallel was a challenge. Of course you don't make one of those without trying it at least I didn't. My test site was from the basement up the stairwell to the main floor. (attached to a large post on the railing). I gotta say it is an athletic event climbing a rope ladder, which turns immediately into a rope swing. Once the swinging stops it is possible to claw your way to the top of the ladder but not easily. It would be even more difficult if you were wet,cold and in full rain gear. Possibly fear and adrenaline would cancel that but maybe not. Anyway the ladder is easy to make it actually works and could feasibly be a lifesaver. I invited my wife to try the"safety ladder" but she declined. I think there was some remarks about my sanity and something about my heritage that I didn't understand.

[Furuno]

I've enjoyed reading this thread. I've been fishing over 30 years and never needed a rescue ladder until last spring. I had a little orientation session for my new deckhand which consisted of learning how to operate all the safety gear and finally donning a survival suit and paddling around the boat in the water. My new deckhand probably weighed 170 and was in really good shape. I told him to climb back aboard when he was done. I could see he was really struggling trying to get over the rail. I was trying to help him aboard but even with the two of us grunting and struggling it wasn't going to happen. He finally had to crawl on to the dock to get out of the water. If we'd been fishing this could have been a real disaster. That afternoon, in about an hours time, I made a simple rope ladder with wooden slats for steps. I roll it up and stow it in an easy to get at place. The next day I hung the ladder over the side and both of us donned suits and easily climbed aboard. Hope I never have to use the thing but an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.