sub-legals

[yak2you2]

No one else wants to touch it, so I will. Sub legal king salmon are kings under 28 inches. Have I had some? yup, though a dozen would be a huge exaggeration. Anybody who says they haven't had any would be lying. It's darn hard when their splashing around to eye ball them, and they come in different sizes. I've seen a long, legal king that weighed 6 lbs., and I've also seen an 8 lb king that wasn't legal.
Some will deem it blasphemous to speak of the unspoken, but I consider it hypocrisy not to. We all line up to talk bad about other fisheries' by-catches of kings, namely the pollock draggers, myself more than anyone. If you look closely, a very large number of the fish your pulling in, are trailing a blood stream from gill damage and whether you keep them or release them makes no difference at this point, their going to die.The fact is, as we all know, if we ever knew what the actual number of short kings we as a fleet throw back dead or dying was, it would probably be a pretty ugly number to say the least.
For me, it's somewhat of a moral issue. When I pull in a market quality 7.5 lb fish thats bleeding, but have to throw it away because it's a 1/4" to short, I feel terrible. It could even be argued that it's a legal paradox, for is this not actually wanton waste?
To go deeper though, how many of us are now calling for tighter restrictions on the sports industry, and calling them on the destructive, wasteful nature of hook and release in search of trophy fish? Is that not what we are doing from a different prospective?
There is a limit which a king salmon is just to small to be marketed, but a 26" or 27" fish surely isn't it. These are 6, 7, sometimes even 8 lb. fish if they've been eating well. Nothing wrong with their marketability, their just not worth as much to us as a fleet. Gillnetters sell these all day.
Perhaps if we as a fleet are going to preach at others, we should take a closer look at how we do things ourselves first.

[farmed fish eater]

well it is good to see you are still posting I was under the impression that you were turning the squelch up and signing off. Nice to see yocan take a little criticism and still keep it coming I was a little bum'd that they deleted some of the blogs, I t was starting to feel like a G rated porno. But on another note I would recomened maybe eating and undersize before trying to sneak one across for a couple of extra bucks. Or maybe I will write a blog on how to release like a pro. Size does matter and it is not hard at all to recognize them for me. I might have a better eye for size than others or just dont catch enough to see that many under size. I dont net fish so dont know what they sell. On another note we should all take a second and make sure to recognize the fact that we are not a perfect industry but we try to follow as trollers a higher guidline of marketable standards for our fish and it bothers us to see such behavior from bycatch fisheries that just dont care about who or how they get their pounds or at whos expense, I wish there were more laws against the pollock fisheries as well they took a record bycatch last year on kings and thats just what we hear. Imagine when they were not as thouroghlly watched by observers. But yet we still find the time to bash other trollers instead of trying to be a entire industry against another we fight in a closet amongst other trollers while some of the worst fisheries in the state stand back and continue the onslaught of a fishery that supports most of these small comunities in southeast. I guess I should quit eating fish sticks and fillet-o-fish sandwiches if I were going to be a true advocate against these fisheries. Bottom line is the ocean is to small for all of us so lets fight with each other on trying to make it even smaller. Well I got to head out for a meeting get backto this issue later.

[yak2you2]

First, there was a lot more than constructive criticism flying around the other day, I don't suppose you would have much enjoyed some of the accusations if they were pointed at you, everybody needs to go cool off from time to time. Second, only a charter boat skipper still believes in the phalicy of being able to "hook and release like a pro", you can't just wish away the damage that a hook does. Nor can we hide behind the logic of, " if it's to short to sell just take it home and eat it," if it's good enough for a fisherman to eat, then it's good enough for him to sell, and should be counted against our quota. It's a simple matter of whether or not a fish is or isn't marketable. It never was or should be about the money.
Farmed fish eater you always did like to play devils advocate, but then again, so do I.

[yak2you2]

If we as an industry wanted to do it as absolutely ethically as possible, we would push for this; Considering that we can legally keep halibut for subsistence while actively commercial trolling with our subsistense halibut permits, salmon should be the same. Keep the 28 inch rule, but change the current laws to make it legal for a guy to posess sub-legals while actively commercial trolling by clipping the dorsal fin immediately, and use them for subsistence or personal use if they are deemed an edible size by the fisherman. These could be registered on the fish ticket, and listed as susistence/personal use and wouldn't have to count against the commercial quota. If a guy could legally fill up his freezer with kings that were going to be wasted anyway, he might not have to go subsistence fishing later in the year, there by easing some of the burden on our resource, and let us all feel better for not wasting good fish.

[sixlines]

I can understand fishermen like yourself that have only been trolling 5 years or so but you must give that fish the benifit of the doubt.The law is the law.I guided ih clear water streams for kings for 20 years or more,And yes some bleeders die,but not all of them,I guess some advice for you get a dipnet and use it till you devellup a trained eye for spotting sub-legals.

[yak2you2]

The law is the law.....ok, yeah, thanks for the advice.
Anyway, I was actually here to communicate with people who are willing to admit that they have had occasional incidental kills of king salmon which are less than 28 inches,TROLLING, in the OCEAN, that were dead but possibly could have been put to good use and try to figure out a possible solution. I didn't come here to communicate with people who's only intention is to heckle people. So, sixlines, in the interests of courtesy to the other users of this board, please stop talking to me, making reference to me, or offering me any advice.

[sixlines]

Now enough is enough,sub-legals is a bad topic to even be talking about,As a seasoned troller that has followed this topic in the past,All your going to do is cost us to loose some more fish off our quota.ADF&G knows or thinks they know what the kill rate is in trolling and they know to keep us out of areas that have alot of kings when we are trolling cohos.

[sixlines]

Imagin if we had cameras watching us,By law, I believe we arnt even aloud to remove sub-legals from the water to measure them,so be careful what you ask for.

[sixlines]

After consulting a friend in juneau on this matter,He says( and I have to side with him) If we were able to keep any sub-legals that the fishery would most certainly have to be acountable for that number.so that would be a solid number for the record,and it would most certainly come off the quota.

[yak2you2]

The head troll biologist lives in Petersburg. The assistant troll biologist lives in Sitka. The director of S.E. Commercial fisheries lives in Sitka. Who could you possibly have talked to in Juneau that knows anything about trolling? Especially on a Saturday.
Thanks again but I really would much prefer to get my advise from someone who knows facts.
Lastly, my boats are some of the few in the harbor that you haven't been a crewman on, so I would prefer it if you didn't bother guessing on how long I've been fishing for either.

[yak2you2]

This particular subject does make people understandably nervous though, so you are right, it is time for this topic to close.

[sixlines]

Hay now,I got trolling buddies in Juneau that have been fishing a long time.I didn't say I called ADF&G.I dont think the fishing fleet inJuneau would take to kindly to you saying they dont know anything about trolling.There fleet is bigger and older than ares so show some respect.

[farmed fish eater]

Boy nice to see the two of you still holding hands on the facts of life. I find great humor in reading you two blow hards blogs. But who are you guys trying to impress, the ATA, yourself or the comunity in which you represent, the hole is just getting deaper so keep up the digging as a matter of fact I wish you had bigger shovels, and charter fishing is the way of the future just wait and see you will be one two some day yak2you2 thats what your permit will be worth to you. Good thing is you only have five years in and wont have to wait like some of the old timers you refer to. And devils advocate, your funny I am just waiting for my chance to play advocate you just keep typing my friend.