Which fishery is more fun and profitable?

Discussion related to commercial salmon trolling, boats, gear, fishing techniques, electronics, marketing, etc.
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Crawfish
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Which fishery is more fun and profitable?

Post by Crawfish »

Which fishery is more profitable and fun?
Trolling in Alaska or Trolling off of Washington?

Pro's ? Cons?

Last thing to consider. This would be for someone who lives in the lower 48.
Salty
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Re: Which fishery is more fun and profitable?

Post by Salty »

great question. They are completely different from what I have heard.
latitudes
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Re: Which fishery is more fun and profitable?

Post by latitudes »

It would be virtually impossible to make a living trolling in WA. Many fish WA and AK, or WA and Oregon or CA. WA is put on trip limits early in the season, so even if you had the ability to catch a lot of fish, the state won't let you.
Crawfish
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Re: Which fishery is more fun and profitable?

Post by Crawfish »

This is the pro/con list I came up with.

Pro Washington vs Alaska
1: Parts availability and price.
2: Price of getting supplies - groceries-fuel.
3: Being able to take your own truck to town.
4: Haul out yards/professional maritime services.
5: Less expensive service IE welding/mechanics/glass repair/prop service.
6: Less capital cost for troll permit.
7: Permit lease option.

Con Washington vs Alaska

1:Lack of anchorages.
2: Bar's
3:Catch limits
4:Abandoned crab gear
5: Political mentality towards commercial fishing.
6: Season largely tied to Columbia river returns.
7: Tule salmon debacle.
8: "Big emphasis" on #1 and #2 and #3

Any thoughts on this?
Kelper
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Re: Which fishery is more fun and profitable?

Post by Kelper »

Kings are fun, but cohos up here in AK are profitable.
latitudes
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Re: Which fishery is more fun and profitable?

Post by latitudes »

Crawfish is right on with all of his remarks. The kicker for WA is that there aren't enough salmon allocated to the commercial fleet to make a living. One may be able to scratch out a living if they did tuna, but prices for that are down somewhat as well. A big issue is if the person is looking at this as a primary income source, I don't know if there's enough money there to make it work. Maybe with an OR permit as well, a few pull that off. Floating on the ocean can be fun if it's smooth, but running into it all night when it's rough is no fun. At least in AK you have all summer to fish coho. Though tedious, it pays the bills.
curmudgeon
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Re: Which fishery is more fun and profitable?

Post by curmudgeon »

Another plug for Alaska has to be the incredible beauty of the scenery.
This picture is of Mt Fairweather taken from 50-miles away on the East bank of the Fairweather Grounds early July.
0702142202a.jpg
(106.6 KiB) Not downloaded yet
lone eagle
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Re: Which fishery is more fun and profitable?

Post by lone eagle »

I see there are quotas set for May 1 and July 1. But how long does it take to mop up ? I wouldn't do well if it were just a few days and at $30k permit price there must be a payoff??
latitudes
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Re: Which fishery is more fun and profitable?

Post by latitudes »

Last season the May opener went to trip limits after the first week. Our season is divided into 2 parts, May-June and July-August. The 1st one has a greater number of fish. If the state senses that a lot of fish are being caught, they will shut down the fishery to do a count, and then re-open (usually on trip limits) in a manner that will allow the season to go the end. Trip limits are run Fri-Tuesday, and fish must be delivered by Wed and reported. That gives the state a day to count, see how many are left on the quota, and do some magic math to determine how many fish will be allowed for the next opener. As indicated, this year had great fishing. The down side is that because of that we were shut down after a week, and then put on trip limits. The number of fish varies, depending on how many were landed during the previous opening. We started at 50 and ended up with only 20 fish per trip the last 2 or 3 weeks in June. Tough to make a trip pay at that, as generally it is a day out, a day fishing, and a day back and unloading.
How the market is justifying such high prices for permits is a good question. I'm new at this, so have yet to figure out what sort of math equation is used in determining the asking price for a permit. It seems that those down here that stay, make it work by also fishing Oregon and WA.
lone eagle
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Re: Which fishery is more fun and profitable?

Post by lone eagle »

That's good information thank you. I fish in southern Oregon and it can blow hard here in July, looking for better production elsewhere. My buddy ran to Ak for kings but I was thinking a week or two on the prairie might work out better for me. Thanks again
Hotspott
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Re: Which fishery is more fun and profitable?

Post by Hotspott »

Great picture, Curmudgeon...and nice weather!!
Hans2
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Re: Which fishery is more fun and profitable?

Post by Hans2 »

Since I've not fished Washington commercially, I can't comment on the "more" part of what you are saying, BUT-

I can tell you that trolling in Southeast was both fun and profitable for me in my first season. I quite didn't gross what I predicted, and spent more than I planned, but with the help of several very knowledgeable and generous trollers out there (you know who you are!) I managed to come home with a little more money than I left with. An unqualified first season success, in my opinion.

This may be better stated in another discussion thread, but my strategy going into this was to minimize expenses to maximize profit. I bought a very small, but very efficient and low maintenance fiberglass boat to start with. I have a small hold and that limited me on a very few occasions. It would not surprise me if my gross revenue on the season was in the same ballpark as the big boys' fuel expenditure. BUT, in spite of my low gross revenue, my expenses were much lower yet and I came home a little bit ahead. My winter maintenance bill will basically be touching up bottom paint and changing the oil. I will reinvest in the boat to improve efficiency and ergonomics. Building on my experiences of last summer along with some smart and inexpensive changes to the boat, I have no doubt I will be solidly in the black at the end of next year and have a little winter grubstake built up to boot. It is not what you make, it's what you save...

Regarding the fun part of the question - I spent last summer making my living catching fish in Southeast Alaska. Don't think there is much more to say about that.

Chris
Salty
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Re: Which fishery is more fun and profitable?

Post by Salty »

Great observation Hans. Loved your last comment.
DiamondLil
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Re: Which fishery is more fun and profitable?

Post by DiamondLil »

I started fish AK over 30 years ago. I've fished OR and WA and have been deeply involved in the Council process for years. A lot of what Latitude says is good. I have some additional thoughts.
1. There are a few guys who make a decent living fishing off of WA. There aren't many permits available, so a few guys make a larger percentage. A lot of AK trollers also have supplemental income.
2. There are a lot of constraints on WA fisheries. Lower Columbia stocks have been the driver for years. Some Puget Sound stocks are now posing a larger threat than the Columbia. Oh man, this gets very complicated very quickly.
3. The price of WA permits is climbing. To some degree this is because of Cal and OR trollers looking at the impact of the drought and water politics on Sacramento and Klamath stocks and searching for better long-term prospects.
4. Profitability varies. WA salmon prices are higher and you don't have the expensive trip up the Inside Passage and back. Any troller would be wise to look at options for additional income whether that's additional fisheries, direct marketing, or a day job (a wife with a day job???). The AK guys tend to stick with AK fisheries like longlining. The Southern US guys look to crabbing, albacore, longline, and AK salmon. The advantage these guys have is if salmon is down, Albacore might be up and vice-versa. Since the seasons overlap, it's easy to switch.
5. Most of us think catching kings is more fun than catching cohoes. WA, OR, and CA fisheries are king fisheries - very few coho. AK sometimes gets a large king quota, but there are a lot more permits fishing, so the average take per boat isn't necessarily better. I've always counted on catching a bunch of coho to make a season. Actually, I like catching coho. OK, I like catching kings more.

My wife and I first went to AK over 30 years ago. We haven't been able to stop going back. We love the fishing, we love the wildlife, we love the anchorages, and we love being fishermen in a place where fishermen are respected.

Joe
curmudgeon
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Re: Which fishery is more fun and profitable?

Post by curmudgeon »

Great comments Joe. Your last paragraph is my thinking exactly.
We all might be getting a bit of a break in the expenses department if fuel prices stay down for a while. That will make the 'expensive trip up the inside passage and back' easier to take.
One of the things I've noticed that saddens me, is that with permit areas fencing guys off, and the high price of fuel, a lot of the guys with older wooden boats that used to always winter in WA or points south, are leaving their boats in Alaska. The winters here are NOT kind to old wood, and we're losing a lot of the venerable old names due to wood turning back into rain-forest.
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Re: Which fishery is more fun and profitable?

Post by Salty »

Great discussion guys. Thx for contributing.
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