Leader lenght

[Lulu]

Any thoughts on how long a leader should be? I've tried 3 and 4 fathom leaders, 6 fathoms in extreme situations. My standard up to late last season was 4 fathoms. I tried 3 fathoms and saw no difference in production. I could stand to save a little money on leader material by standardizing on 3 fathoms.

[Scotthmt]

I finished up last year fishing 3-4fa leaders in 12fa of water. One thing I saw was that 2.5fa didn't fish as well as 3. And switching to 60# made a hell of a lot of difference.

But my experience is limited.

[Salty]

Lulu, there are a lot of things to be worried about in trolling expenses. The difference in cost between 3 and 4 fathom leaders is not one of them.

[mattakfish]

As a new power troller (third season coming up) I've struggled with the same question. Gotten a lot of good advice from more experienced trollers. Among other factors, my leaders mostly vary by species and desired spread spacing on the wire. I have 1.5 fathom wire and snap on every mark for dogs and coho so I try to keep each spread in the 1.5 fathom range. Main leader (twine or mono) is typically around a fathom or a bit shorter for dogs...a bit longer for a coho flasher spread and up to the full 1.5 fathoms for coho spoons.

For my first season of kings I tried a variety of things. In the spring and first summer opener I varied my leader length a lot....sometimes going from a one fathom spoon on the bottom to leaders as long as 5 fathoms on top with longer and longer spacing on the wire to compensate. I even tried 7 to 9 fathom leaders for a couple plugs on my floats. However, by summer I found that in general, I preferred shorter, standardized lengths. The mix got too complicated and the longer leaders really limited the number of spreads I could use and I didn't really see a clear correlation between longer length and catch rate (though I know plenty of other factors...especially depth and location...were at play there). By the second king opener, I standardized leaders to 2 or 3 fathoms and added more spreads and that seemed to improve my catch rate. However, again, too many other factors were at play to know whether leader length played a big part.

One thing is for sure, I have A LOT more to learn. Especially about kings. Trollers I know who have been at it for decades have a variety of opinions on leader length (and everything else) and most say they are still trying to figure it all out.

I was also wondering about test. I use 100# tail leader for coho and dogs.......100 to 120 for kings. Scotthmt, did you have much breakage switching to 60#? Was that for kings too or just coho? You think the lighter leader improved your catch rate?

[Scotthmt]

all we have are allowed are kings here in ca. And I had zero breakage, although I ran snubbers I'm not sure how much that matters in reality though. Biggest fish we got was 31-32# dressed on 60# leader, many 20# class fish in there too. At worst a big fish will make the leader all curly and you'll have to change it out. The improvement in catch was night and day. When I ran 100# from my flasher to hoochie I rarely caught well, once I went to 60, the hoochies became nearly top producer. I suppose you could vary leader length to maybe 4-5x flasher and 100 would work well. My belief was that 100# @3x hotspot length gave to hoochie too much action due to the stiff mono. I think this deterred salmon or made it too hard for them to hit.


This season I'm going to run 60 on spoons, 70 on flasher and 60 on tail leader. It was very frustrating watching other guys catch on hardware and I couldn't get a bite, I think my heavy leader had a lot to do with it.

[Lulu]

Thanks for everyone's thoughts. I knew it would be interesting to see a divergent array of opinions. I am going to go with the 3F leaders, maybe some 4s for the spoons just above the flasher. I do prefer Yama leader material because it is very pliable, lays in the leader easily, and I know its toast when it turns black from stress. I've use 60 and 80# and don't see any difference in the number of bites. I did catch my biggest salmon, a 51#er, on 40#, but I'll never that again. It took an hour to get in the boat and had to pull all the gear; lost a lot of fishing time for one stupid fish. Second thought, who was stupid, me or the fish?

[Crawfish]

I used Spider Wire........

Once.

What's the consensus 3 Fathom Standard?
Or tapered to match trolling wire angle?

[Salty]

Here is what I do, generally. I use three pound spools after I have used the leader material up as home for 2, 3, and 4 fathom leaders. I crimp a 1 inch loop on the end of each leader and use that loop to insert the loops from the next leader into so I have dozens of leaders on each spool. I Label each spool by leader length and test. For 1.5 fathom and shorter leaders I bag them in zip lock bags. For longer plug and spoon leaders I tie them up directly off the purchased spool.
I pretty much use 2 fathom or four fathom spoon leaders, 9 foot and three fathom flasher leaders, and 7-10 fathom plug leaders for kings and coho. The biggest improvement in my trolling salmon for both kings and coho is knowing when to run more or less leaders. Most often I run less leaders than practically anyone around, but sometimes for coho I will run gear 1 fathom apart. Because we have been fishing chums and pinks for many years with 1 and 1.5 fathom marks and have cartridges and wire ready to go on in a short time we can load up the gear if I have crew to handle the ensuing production.
Some of my biggest coho days have come with 2-4 spreads a line. We abhor, hate, can't stand pulling blank leaders. We often only put out more leaders when the salmon start climbing it.

[Salty]

Key point, just cause I share what I do doesnt mean it is the best idea for you or even is the most competitive in my area.

[Trnaround]

I have tried variable lengths of leaders and now I make my flasher leaders the same as my wire stops (1.5 fathoms) mainly because they don't tangle with other leaders as easily and don't tangle with the floats in current or fishing deep as easily. Plugs longer 7-10fthms. I like 120# test leaders because I can't stand to lose big fish and gear because they break off. There is a big difference between break offs between 100# and 120# and I can't imagine running 80# test. Some big fish will actually raise a 60# ball as you bring them in. A fish that dresses 40# at $5 a pound is worth $200, I don't like to have those break off. Also if you are in fish your leaders are weakening as you land fish so the heavier leader holds up much better. If you never encounter those big fish or those hot bites then it isn't an issue but in SE AK you do. I don't see a big difference in bites but I think that depends on how fast you fish and quite a few other things not leader length or pound test. Just my observations here, and what seems to work on my boat.

[Salty]

Good point on leader test. I know some people who use 120 almost exclusively. More important to me is durability, color, price and stretch. For those reasons I have not used yama, Jinkai, or maxima in many years. Used Yozuri for many years, moved on to Izor, and now am using another brand.
I use 60-100 trolling. There are so few fish left up here over 30 lbs that losing bites 10-20 costs me way more than breaking off the ones over 40. Spoons, plugs, and rolling herring work much better for me on lighter gear. But, I am seldom in big production on king salmon. Most of my days king salmon fishing are scratching, often for less than 10 a day.

[Crawfish]

I agree with Salty stretch is very important to keeping them on. I also agree with the ability to scratch with lighter leader. I have only caught a few above 42 LBS but even with 90 I was able to get them. Typically my 8/0 hooks will start to open before 90 LB breaks. I think if they want to leave they will. I have seen 50 LB leads fly out of the water with wild fish on the end before, if a 35LB fish wants to go away it will either open my hook or break my leader.

[Trnaround]

If you are concerned with stretch, you will get more stretch with longer leaders. I fish short leaders with snubbers and heavier line. I also get hooks straightening and lose some fish that way but at least you don't lose the gear. Most importantly what YOU have confidence in is the way to go and at the end of the day hopefully you are happy with what you catch. Good fishing.

[Salty]

Oops, wrong interpretation, my bad. I try to choose a mono blend with minimum stretch. Stretch weakens the leader and leads to breakage. I change the leaders out regularly and at any sign of damage.

[Crawfish]

In my experience elasticity while not being beneficial to a solid hook set makes up the difference in keeping the lightly hooked fish on the line. If you get a fish hooked in the jaw I don't think it matters much.

[Salty]

Hmm, maybe that's why I don't catch much. Low stretch leaders, heavy leads, no springs on blocks, and no snubbers. At one time I believed in all of them.

[Crawfish]

I forgot about the springs on the blocks for energy dampening. I don't think I have ever seen mine move.

[Salty]

One one boat I inherited some ingeniously place leaf springs that bounced away when pulling big ones.

[Lulu]

I like the high stretch, flexible leader material (Yama) because it allows me to use high test material on short (9 feet on the snooters) and long (8 fathoms for plugs) leaders without sacrificing the action of the lure; especially spoons. Someone mentioned that high stretch leaders wear out faster and I agree. My thinking is the cost of the leader by changing it out after a big fish verses getting more bites is worth the cost; like maybe $.25/leader. In CA, we don't deal with the bigger fish (30#+) until late in the season. I tried snubbers late last year and didn't really notice a big difference in decreased production, but this is a scratch fishery and it is hard to tell.

One hook that I found which really increased production is the Qi straight hook (verses the claw point). The straight point is about 1/4 inch longer from the point to the throat of the hook. And, the stock metal is a heavier gauge compared to the claw point. These bad boys don't break or bend as easily. And, I don't lose as many fish because of the extra length in the point. Their even better than the duranickel hooks I had stamped and tempered at a considerable cost which are now collecting dust somewhere in a drawer.

[Scotthmt]

I've been using jinkai exclusively but I am tempted to try other brands this year. I've heard superstar is good and also Yama.

The hook thing really intrigues me, I always find myself playing with and experimenting with hooks. Recently I have came across some old mustad 7/0 9510xxxs, comparing them to other hooks has left me impressed with them and not so pleased with some hooks that I already owned. I do like the claw point hooks as I feel they hold on to the fish better than straight point, although bite to hook ratio may be slightly lower than straight point. Here are a few pictures I took.


Old 9510xxxs 7/0 vs 6/0 95170 new production