Preseason crew member expectations

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nashfam
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Preseason crew member expectations

Post by nashfam »

Can some of you please weigh in on how much preseason help you expect from your crew members & what percentage wage you pay?

I'm offering a friend of mine (whose new to commercial trolling) 15% Gross (with the exception of splitting groceries) with a bonus 3% for lasting the whole season, having a good attitude, being reliable, etc... I feel like this is very generous for a green hand. and as such I'm asking him to start helping me now with projects/getting ready in order to get as much familiarity with the operation as possible and hopefully get some spring fishing in.

He stated that he'll give two weeks preseason help but any more then that and he wants a higher wage or to be compensated daily. I'm pretty annoyed as I feel I'm being plenty generous with what I'm offering. any input?
Chris+Iris Nash, F/V Orion
Sobie2
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Re: Preseason crew member expectations

Post by Sobie2 »

2 weeks is a long time. A day or so should be expected to get ready to leave port for "free" getting groceries, baiting hooks, stacking pots that kind of stuff. Two weeks though sounds like boat yard work, and you should not expect your crew to do that. As the vessel owner you should be paying a fair rate for boat work... (comparable to the yard rate) if your crew is capable of doing the work.

Then again we trollers tend to be more of the ethical, conciencious objector, fair wage, hippie type of commercial fishermen, a-hem excuse me, "fisher-person"

Sobie2
nashfam
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Re: Preseason crew member expectations

Post by nashfam »

I appreciate the input Sobie2.

My attitude towards this is no doubt shaped by my old school dad who required around 2 weeks and always grumbled that he should get more then that. This was for things like painting, putting the boat on the grid, electrical, engine, groceries, whatever was needed. so yes; "boat yard work". It was made clear to me that this was all part of my position. I'm offering a higher share then I got as a family deal my first year so I was therefore expecting more then what was expected of me.

Isn't that a good share though for a green deckhand?
Chris+Iris Nash, F/V Orion
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Re: Preseason crew member expectations

Post by Kelper »

I'd say that if you got 2 weeks of boat yard work + a crewman for 15%, you'd be coming out the winner on that one.
joeman79
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Re: Preseason crew member expectations

Post by joeman79 »

At 10 bucks an hr for 14 8 hr days would be $1120.00 free labor. But I doubt there are any 8 hr days getting your boat ready. But that would be like 4 or 5 good days of coho fishing for his share. I am paying mine 12 bucks an hr and he is worth every dime for scraping paint, sanding, cleaning boat, putting new engine in. But I am too nice of a guy! But I am new to troll fleet and don't know what is deemed reasonable.
I personally would pay him something, at least food, drink, and maybe a bonus if you think he does more than expected.
mydona
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Re: Preseason crew member expectations

Post by mydona »

2 weeks being a long time? With a 1st year deck hand, I don't think so. It takes that long to get familiar with a new boat, where are the tools- filters- hydro fittings, engine room and all the shut off valves. This is a long list right down the phrases used to to identify everything. Painting and grid can show weekness of planking, hull and rigging that need paying attention to during the season. Being present for dock-side exams. These are things that only experience can teach and should be known before the season. During the 2 weeks, who is paying for room and board? Learning how that quirky oil stove is to cook on, dish water rationing, and just plain settling into sleeping in a bunk. A few trips to the fish supply and hardware store should demonstrate how expensive it is to run a boat and hopefully, they will learn to keep this in mind when using your equipment. Now that you've moved the boat a few times crew should have a knowledge of how to tie a line to a piling, cleat, height of bumpers for a dock verses none at the pilings, and the all important spare bumper to toss between boats when trying to get into a tight stall next to a "soft" neighbor. These 2 weeks should give you an idea if you 2 are compatible and if not time to seek another crew. (I've roomed with best friends before and compatibility is something time can only test). 15% is generous. I start them at 10% for a few weeks and increase 2.5%/wk up to 15% plus the end of the season bonus. The 2nd season, if they return, I start at 15% and bump to 20% on the same scale. When you think of the 1st time they are in the pit, how dangerous the guirdies are, how much time 2 people have be there, learning to dress and handle fish all while your chasing kings in 5 day opener, losing 1 out of 4 because of inexperience, on a crowded drag and no one at the helm. Not to mention no mid-day rests because the new guy isn't sure how to read the plotter. How to float the leads over 18 fm hump when dragging 20. Just remember.. a good deck hand is worth his weight in gold and should be treated with respect and the understanding that they are still learning. Also if a 15% crew is not increasing your catch by 15% your losing money
joeman79
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Re: Preseason crew member expectations

Post by joeman79 »

Very well stated
Salty
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Re: Preseason crew member expectations

Post by Salty »

Good discussion guys, Thx. I pay my crew for any boat work not directly related to a trip. I pay an hourly wage for Haulout work, all painting of rails, etc. The rate is confidential and generous but I expect excellent work and usually get it.
I have been crew training all month and expect to have 4 trained crew available to rotate in from mid-June until mid September. They aren't making much now at any %, but they are getting hooked on landing nice kings. I also pay a % of gross after fuel and offer a bonus for staying the whole term of contract.
MonkeyFish
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Re: Preseason crew member expectations

Post by MonkeyFish »

In Washington, 20-25% gross is the norm, including groceries. But thats for ice boats. Paying anyone less than $15 an hour is considered insulting... But that may reflect cost of living.
Salty
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Re: Preseason crew member expectations

Post by Salty »

I pay more in line wth Washington but then we do a lot of pinks and chums so we unload and clean up almost every night. Trolling kings and coho is different and many of the guys pay 10-15% in Alaska. I pay more when it is me and one really good crew member. Less per person when there are three of us.
MonkeyFish
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Re: Preseason crew member expectations

Post by MonkeyFish »

I don't think a week or two of preseason work is unreasonable if your deckhand will be working a full season. But you should probably buy him/her a few nice dinners along the way ;-)
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Re: Preseason crew member expectations

Post by Crawfish »

nashfam wrote:Can some of you please weigh in on how much preseason help you expect from your crew members & what percentage wage you pay?

I'm offering a friend of mine (whose new to commercial trolling) 15% Gross (with the exception of splitting groceries) with a bonus 3% for lasting the whole season, having a good attitude, being reliable, etc... I feel like this is very generous for a green hand. and as such I'm asking him to start helping me now with projects/getting ready in order to get as much familiarity with the operation as possible and hopefully get some spring fishing in.

He stated that he'll give two weeks preseason help but any more then that and he wants a higher wage or to be compensated daily. I'm pretty annoyed as I feel I'm being plenty generous with what I'm offering. any input?





"I'm offering a friend of mine"





My first rule is never work for, hire or sell anything to friends or family. You keep your friends- family better this way. 10% is the going rate for someone who is a green horn this includes groceries and boat work. 15% is the rate for a normal crew member with groceries and boat work. 20% is for an awesome deckhand who is seasoned and includes groceries and boat work. Take your friend out for fun and keep your friend. Hire them and watch the train wreck.
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Re: Preseason crew member expectations

Post by JKD »

Good post Crawfish. We think alike.
Salty
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Re: Preseason crew member expectations

Post by Salty »

Well, I am in a completely different universe than crawfish and JKD. I grew up crewing with my family, worked on a family operation seiner, and have run a family and friends crew trolling business for many years.
But, I know a lot of trollers who run their operations separate from family and friends. Both can work or fail. I love the diversity and freedom in the troll fleet.
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Re: Preseason crew member expectations

Post by Salty »

I don't make enough to keep good crew at 10 or 15%. One of the curses of being a chronic Lowliner.
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Re: Preseason crew member expectations

Post by Crawfish »

Salty wrote:Well, I am in a completely different universe than crawfish and JKD. I grew up crewing with my family, worked on a family operation seiner, and have run a family and friends crew trolling business for many years.
But, I know a lot of trollers who run their operations separate from family and friends. Both can work or fail. I love the diversity and freedom in the troll fleet.
I think I may have over simplified my last post. I have been on both sides. Working for friends , friends working for me same as with family. The unsaid rules were well known and understood seeing as most of us were fourth generation fisherman. Trouble is if you take a friend/family member from another industry they might not quite understand how it all works. Sometimes this leads to more problems down the line. It's a lot easier to send Bob, who was some guy who was wanting work wondering up and down the docks on his way when things don't work out rather than deal with Uncle Karl at Christmas dinner because he thinks a bonus check is still coming his way even though all he did was sleep in the pit the whole time while you were steering in the fog. Not trying to be pessimistic just seen a lot of falling out over the years.



YMMV
Hans2
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Re: Preseason crew member expectations

Post by Hans2 »

I think friends and family can work really well - but only if the skipper does their job and manages both expectations and performance. Uncle Karl sleeping in the pit? It had better have been made clear prior to loosing your dock lines that although he's the uncle on shore, on the boat you're the skipper and you expect performance. If a skipper finds themselves disappointed about a friend or family member's performance on the boat and doesn't address it immediately like they would with any other deckhand, they only have themselves to blame for any fallout that occurs.

Some friends and family (especially your elders) won't be comfortable with the dynamic on the boat, particularly if they changed your diapers in the past. The effort must be made to weed those folks out early by being assertive about how it will be on the boat, no matter how it is on shore.
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Re: Preseason crew member expectations

Post by Crawfish »

Speaking of weeding people out.

My step brother fresh from the air force "not a fisherman", let the pole out one time as I was running out the jaws. He forgot to hold onto the haul in lines :o It was a forty five foot pole. I was going 7 knots. It took all of the rudder I had to keep out of the rocks. Needless to say If he wasn't my brother, blood would have been shed on the deck that day. We spent hours trying to fish the haul in lines out of the wheel, keep the boat off of the rocks, get the anchor out... Get the haul in lines back into the shives on the mast. Pull said 400LB pole out of the water. After that I decided no more help from him. One thing about it I have never seen a pole go by the cabin windows so fast before :lol:
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Re: Preseason crew member expectations

Post by pomfret1uku »

It can indeed be difficult. There are so many little ins and outs with trolling . I don't want to constantly be barking do this or that. It can make for a strained trip. But loosing a 50lb lead can make make a strained trip as well. Pick your battles maybe. Or go alone?
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Re: Preseason crew member expectations

Post by Salty »

Just had crew drop a pole this. Week. But, all the safety wires and tie downs worked to soften the blow. Nothing broke. My son dropped a main once and things did break so we prepared for the next time. I have been super fortunate with green crew this year. Another hand to train this week. Works better when there are fish to work with.
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