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Spectra alternative to trolling wire

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Spectra alternative to trolling wire

Postby Flyer » Thu Apr 06, 2017 5:57 am

Hi all,

I am developing and testing a braided spectra alternative to the industry-standard stainless trolling wire. I have succesfully adapted braided line to other commercial fishing applications, and I'm just trying to gauge interest in trying a new product. I am starting with the common diameters of 1/16" and 5/64". Breaking strength of the 1/16" is approx. 450#. 5/64" has yet to be tested for break strength, but will be proportionally stronger. Price point will be similar to stainless wire.

I do realize there are many pros and cons of stainless wire, and the same applies to my spectra product. Ultimately it is a matter of personal choice. I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel, but i do tend to be more open-minded in my approach to fishing and believe in the evolution of things.

I welcome everyone's opinions and feedback. I will also be looking for beta testers in the near future.

Cheers,
Paul
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Re: Spectra alternative to trolling wire

Postby Hans2 » Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:55 am

How do you mark your line without compromising its strength, and how to you address the abrasion of snaps? How do you address the impact of using a non-conductive line on our electrical fields that we work hard to set up and maintain?
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Re: Spectra alternative to trolling wire

Postby Flyer » Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:27 am

Hans2, Those are great questions. The proprietary marking is what makes the product, and will maintain its full strength. In addition to its natural abrasion resistance, the spectra wire is coated at the filament level. The final product may be coated post-production as well, depending on testing results.

As far as electrical field goes, that is a very long-debated subject. For some, the non-conductivity may be a boon. For others it may be a drawback. Naturally, the choice will ultimately be up to the fisherman. I am not arguing for either side, but merely "fishing" to see if there is any interest in a viable spectra product.

Cheers,
Paul
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Re: Spectra alternative to trolling wire

Postby curmudgeon » Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:50 am

In 2012, i changed out all the guys and stays on my poles to Amsteel Blue Spectra/Dyneema. We have snooter poles on our rig and before the change, it required the hydraulic capstan to raise the poles. Now my wife can easily do it herself just hand-over-hand without the capstan. That set-up is still in perfectly good shape in spite of continuous sun and weather. I'd be very interested in trying the braided troll-"wire"! What technique do you use for eye-splices on that small diameter 12-strand?
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Re: Spectra alternative to trolling wire

Postby Flyer » Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:39 pm

Curmudgeon, there are several splicing tools on the market, but I prefer the Ronstan F15 splicing needle. I have had good success using a simple "Chinese finger cuff" splice, but this kind of splice can also be served, split and re-tucked, etc. It also has very high knot strength in a pinch. Thanks for your interest. I will keep you posted as R&D progresses.

I'd really like to hear everyone's concerns about a spectra trolling wire, so please share them.
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Re: Spectra alternative to trolling wire

Postby Jackson » Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:42 pm

I've been looking for something like this and would be very interested in more information and being able to test it out.
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Re: Spectra alternative to trolling wire

Postby Flyer » Fri Apr 07, 2017 2:06 am

Jackson, thanks for your interest. Where are you located? Which wire diameter and length do you like to use?

One benefit of spectra over wire is lack of memory. This means no "slinky" effect if you end up with a big tangle on deck. It also means if you want to up-end your wire each season, the part that has been on the spool all year will be like new with no curl and no corroded stops.
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Re: Spectra alternative to trolling wire

Postby Lulu » Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:43 pm

Flyer, my hat off to you for creativity. I think in some applications it could work. However, the natural hull potential of the boat will be lost on the string verses wire. Off course, a black box is out of the question. I use it for tag lines so I know its tough.

I might suggest a test. Fish wire on one side and Spectra on the other. Make sure you fish the Spectra on the weak side of the boat. If its not working, you don't want to loose any more production than you have to.

First thought was it won't hold up to a crab pot. It might on a small boat. But, if there is any mass (like 10+ tons) coupled by the forward motion, I doubt it will hold and shouldn't be expected to. Lead being $2.00+ a pound plus flasher, leaders, A-Kays, etc. it gets expensive fast.

Good luck with that one.
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Re: Spectra alternative to trolling wire

Postby Crawfish » Wed Apr 12, 2017 3:11 pm

Maybe Dyneema would be a good option for a synthetic choice?
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Re: Spectra alternative to trolling wire

Postby Flyer » Thu Apr 13, 2017 4:54 am

Lulu,
Thanks for your reply and your input. I am working on incorporating a thin conductor strand, SS or maybe copper, into the construction to address the non-conductivity issue.

As for holding up to a crab pot, I believe it will hold up as well as or better than steel, as it has a higher breaking strength than SS wire of the same diameter. I don't have my own actual test numbers yet, but direct comparison tests will be done, rest assured. Spectra & Dyneema (both are trademark names for UHMWPE fiber products) have been consistently replacing wire rope in the shipping and towing industries, and the price point has come down enough to make economic sense as well. Here is a video I found that demonstrates the breaking strength comparison:

https://youtu.be/GDJ3QjvRZT0

I have been using Dyneema line on my stabies for 10+ years now, and have had no issues. It is simple to splice, UV stable, super strong and easy on hands. I still use SS cable for my albacore taglines though because their weight resists the wind a little better.

Another benefit of using braided line for trolling wire is that it doesn't want to spin under pressure like twisted wire (thanks to Curmudgeon for reminding me of this).

My goal is to develop a Dyneema (thanks Crawfish) product that will outperform SS wire. I am working closely with a USA manufacturer, and will be testing the first prototype in a couple weeks when (if?) the CA commercial season opens. Even if it doesn't, I will still test it out by running hookless gear if I have to.

Thank you for your comments. Please keep the input coming, as it will help me to create a better product.
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Re: Spectra alternative to trolling wire

Postby GaribaldiFisher » Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:24 am

I like the idea and while it may not be for everyone it may be for some. I would try it and I have been thinking about trying some type of kevlar braid or spectra braid. My boat is small and I don't fish traditional troll gear such as hydro gurdie, I have a pair of hi performance electric down riggers with 20 pound balls and 300' of wire, I know I could never fish deep with this set up but it works pretty well for the nearshore shallow fishing that I target. My trouble is when the down riggers get stowed or handled wrong the wire jumps the spool and is a PIA to fix, braid may solve all this for me.
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Re: Spectra alternative to trolling wire

Postby Flyer » Sat Apr 15, 2017 4:21 am

Garibaldi,
Thanks for your interest. The spectra products I'm developing could certainly work for you, however they are geared more towards using the 30#-60# leads, so the diameter might be more than you need. Are you running spreads directly off your downrigger wire or are you using releases with rods?
If you're running rods and release clips sporty-style, you could swap out your wire for some 200# braided line and be good to go.

If you're using your downriggers like gurdies and running spreads off the wire, then my 1/16" spectra would work well for you, especially if you only need 300' or so.

Development is coming along, and I'm working out the final details of the construction. Shoot me a PM with your location and contact info and I will put you on my beta testing list.

Cheers,
Paul
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Re: Spectra alternative to trolling wire

Postby GaribaldiFisher » Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:19 am

Flyer wrote:Garibaldi,
Thanks for your interest. The spectra products I'm developing could certainly work for you, however they are geared more towards using the 30#-60# leads, so the diameter might be more than you need. Are you running spreads directly off your downrigger wire or are you using releases with rods?
If you're running rods and release clips sporty-style, you could swap out your wire for some 200# braided line and be good to go.

If you're using your downriggers like gurdies and running spreads off the wire, then my 1/16" spectra would work well for you, especially if you only need 300' or so.

Development is coming along, and I'm working out the final details of the construction. Shoot me a PM with your location and contact info and I will put you on my beta testing list.

Cheers,
Paul


Hi Paul, I am doing both, running a couple of spreads off of the down rigger wire attempting to use them like gurdies and couple of rods with 65 pound braid and release clips. I am still figuring things out but hey that's part of the fun for me! Sure I'll pm you my info. Thanks.
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