Chain or Springs

[Trnaround]

There are different ways to rig the tag line to the pole that I have seen and was wondering what ways are favored and why. My rig has the tag line attached between a spring and a chain. The chain is attached to the pole and the spring is also attached to the pole and where they meet in the middle the tag line is attached. Then a wire is also attached to this junction and run forward as a "tell tale"up to the bow where some people rig a bell. I have a bell also on the spring where everything attaches. I see quite a few boats now just hanging a chain with no spring on the pole and rigging a spring forward on the attachment to the hull. I kinda like the spring on the pole because it takes up a lot of shock when you get a big fish on and it's easy to read little bumps or big things. Anybody using the chain only, and how do you like it? Thanks.

[mydona]

I use the chain at the tip with the spring at where the solid for stay is attached. I haven't had to drop a pole at the dock in years to replace a stretched spring. At the tip is where I put the 2nd strongest breaking strap at. see; http://www.salmontrolling.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2577 I might suggest viewing some pics and movies on this forum for what is being done. see pole pics and Salty has a lot of boat pics to review.

[Salty]

I removed the springs in about 1988 after years of struggling with them. Everything from lines getting stuck in them to straightening them out on the bottom, to clanging against the poles when I was anchored or tied up with the poles up. Removed the bells in 1989. I couldn't hear em anyway, and when I was fishing in the Anchorages, one of my favorite tricks, the other guys could hear em jingling away.

What I went to then, 25 years ago, and am still using is a simple rig of a short light stainless chain about a foot long attached to the pole at pad eyes where you want em. I attach them with c clips which work great and don't have anything to hang on. I attach a tattletell to the end of the chain that goes forward to a long bungie which I attach to my anchor roller. I also attach my tag line to the end of the chain. I can count the humpy bites on my bungies even in rough weather. Takes a while to learn to read the float bags but after a while you can tell when there is a fish.

T

IMG_9971.jpg (22.55 KiB) Viewed 46364 times

he best tattletell I have ever watched is the end of a bow pole.

[Trnaround]

Good replies, it looks so much simpler and if it avoids dropping the pole for maintenance that is a bonus. I always thought the spring gave a little and kept a big fish from breaking off but maybe that isn't the case. I love watching that spring pumping with a big fish and hearing the clatter when you get them going. I'll probably change it next time the poles need to come down. Thanks for the input.

[Salty]

There is plenty of pole and tattletell action without the springs. Seeing less and less of em around the harbor here in Sitka.
Knowing what I know now, I would change em before I went fishing again. What I have been striving for on my pole rigging the last few years is simpler, lighter, less hangups, less need for maintenance. So, aluminum poles, SS chain, connectors, and wire, light but heavy duty blocks.

Here is a tip for the few trollers still lurking on this site.

On the subject of SS chain: I have been walking the docks on my annual checkout of latest ideas on the fleet. It is really nice in our business that most of the fleet is tied up to public docks and we can walk by and check out the rigging and deck lay outs. One of the ideas recommended to me a few years ago that I see more and more of on the docks is switching from cable on your stabilizers to ss chain. I did it a few years ago and was amazed at the difference. Seems to slide through the water and shed kelp better, is much easier to grab and pull up when you need to, is much easier to attach on both ends, and piles nicer on the deck when the stabies are in. Plus you don't have to check and worry about corrosion in the copper crimp. I attach my haul up line (from my third gurdy spool) about a foot above the stabie which works out perfect for the way I store my stabie. With chain it is easy to attach anywhere. I also put on a few ss c clips to run my haul up line (halibut gangion) up the chain so that when I haul it in for the day or to remove kelp the stabie comes into the block and then up. (Thanks kjwelder) Never have to leave the cockpit to deploy, tend, or store.

[Trnaround]

Salty, I have gone to the ss chain on the stabilizer too and agree with those reasons you stated but haven't been able to rig the stabilizer to come right to the block on the third gurdy. I didn't understand the ss c clips on the chain. Could you explain that set up. I have rigged to the stabilizer but It gets into my tag lines so went to a pulley above the chain but I can only get it in half way in which is ok but I would love to be able to bring it into the boat.

[Salty]

I will post a couple of pictures that should help. Will take a bit.

[Kelper]

Thanks for the thread. What's the preferred tag line material? Trolling wire?

[Salty]

01e7366fb0ba4a12a864b57b0801600e624b97a973_00001.jpg (38.7 KiB) Viewed 46224 times

Okay, so the haul up goes from your third spool through the block out to chain and through the c clip at about water level, it will take some adjustment on each boat because you want enough line from the pole to the clip so that when you start hauling the chain comes right up to within a few inches of the block. Ideally this is just above the water. However in my case the stabies are so far out the pole that it comes to just below the water line but no big problem, just a bit more kelp hang up.
Then your gangion goes through about two more c-clips to keep it close to the chain and I attach it then to another c-clip about a foot above the stabie. Then when I haul the stabie the chain comes into the block at the first c-clip and then the staby comes up to the block. When the staby clears the water it is right there for me to grab and stow on the deck.

01af7090460c3ad2fc93b07cc5fab6b300792638ca.jpg (31.41 KiB) Viewed 46224 times

[Salty]

The descriptive language could be better but I am traveling today and temporarily scrambling because 62 just over flew Sitka.

[Trnaround]

No that's a perfect description, I get it. Thanks. So the chain just bunches up as it comes up. That is a great tip.

[Hans2]

Great stuff guys. Posts like this are worth every penny I've donated to Jon over the last few years.

By the way, could be about time for a "membership renewal drive"...

[JKD]

Thanks for the description. Eric. I will use your stabie chain rigging concept, but I think I'm going to mimic Walter and have mine come up to a block on each pole about an easy arm's length out from the pole bracket. I may change my mind after some experimentation, but I hope to mount some stabie holders on the inside of the bulwark just aft of where the poles attach to the caprail.

[salmon4u]

I just quit using stabilizers.. ha.. nice tips though

[JYDPDX]

Thanks a ton for posting that example of the Staby haul up. I'll be implementing it very soon. Agree about chain Vs. cable. Stubbornly I refused to switch out the cable cutting and recrimping new sleeves or replacing the whole cable every season. Probably have spent twice as much as it would have cost for chain in the first place. The last straw this past season was when I had a bran new cable fail (after about 2 or 3 months) luckily the staby was hanging by about one strand and I didn't lose it but the wire had come completely unraveled and was ruddering the staby precariously close to the hull.

I like having bells on the tattle tells but agree that they can be a nuisance if they make noise when they aren't supposed to. Mine do not make any extra noise even when the poles are up. If its really windy in the harbor they will act up a little but not much. Here is a pic of the way I have been hanging mine. Just two zip ties to get the favorable angle of loose hang and it connects directly to the tattle tell and can slide or spin freely along the tattle tale. If the zip tie was synched up tight the bell would not work right and make all kinds of extra sounds. I like having the bells because if I get distracted I can hear a strike or if I am busy on one side of the boat running a line I can hear the other side go and know which line it is without looking (I use different bells for my heavies and floats). I don't know how people can winter fish without them but maybe I have an unorthodox prioritization for which lines to run and when. They are less indispensable for me in the summer because we are basically just running through the gear constantly anyway but it is nice to know exactly which lines have the fish on them without really having to look up or cleaning fish and know which line to run first when I put the knife down.

RE: tagline material: I bought a spool of "wire rope" I think it is called, from Sea Mar or Fisheries Supply and it has worked really well for the tattle tells. It does not kink and fray like troll wire and is substantially stronger. For the tagline portion I have been using what I think is called, "amsteel". It is probably strong enough to break my poles off but that is not a concern because there is a breaking strap between the tag line and the fairlead. The reason for the amsteel on the tagline portion is that it was more visible against the sky but that may not have been necessary. Perhaps something with more stretch would fish better but its sure nice not to break tag lines. I have used that setup for 6 seasons and never broken a tagline, had to make an adjustment, replace a spring or fix anything. My only springs are at the ends of the tattle tells at the bulwarks forward. The junction at the pole is via a short length of chain from the pad eye. The bells do corrode out or fall off eventually when the plastic zip tie fails but thats not a 'lower the pole' affair.

I am sure there are better ways, but I have been very satisfied with this set up.

My father's boat has those bars and springs out on the poles and they rattle like crazy anytime his engine is running. The Sunsee has that setup too and when he passes on the backpack I can hear both of his mains banging away, surely loaded with fish, all the way from my boat. Then again he's usually really close

[Salty]

Wow, good ideas on different bells for different lines. If I could hear I would consider.
On the spot for the Staby haul up. I had mine coming up to the base of the pole for several years. There were two problems:
1. I had to crawl out of the pit to set em or whenever I needed to remove kelp or store em;
2. They were always in the way up there on my small boat for fuel up, walking to the bow, tying up etc.
they are out of the way now.


the only disadvantage to where they are now is that I have to set or move them before I throw the gear in.

[gumpucky]

I just drill a hole in the upper back side of the dorsal, attach the haulback there. You have to adjust the belly out of that but have never had a fish make it up to tangle with it. Been thinking about a clip in the davit to hang the staby but jury is still out on that idea. Although it wouldn't be hanging in rough conditions. Another benefit of this lashup is you can haul them up and let them plane behind the boat when going through tight, shallow places. Like the different bells idea. Don't know how many times I was going to do that and space it out.

[Trnaround]

Those are great ideas, in rigging the stabies, am looking forward to trying it out. On tag lines, I use troll wire and 6 feet of gangion with thimbles on either end of the wire. They have lasted for years but my main complaint is I can't see the wire in some light conditions, need something with more contrast to see the angle. I talked with the guys at Pacific Net and Twine and they said a lot of people use 6mm Poly E. I use the 4mm Poly E for breaking strap on the leads and it works well. I like it because you can splice an eye easily and quickly with it and it makes a nice clean strap with no knots. I have heard that Amsteal works well for tag lines but I am not sure if it splices easily or not. I am going to be changing my tag lines this year and get away from the troll wire. You know you are old and circling the drain when you can't see your tag lines.

[curmudgeon]

The Amsteel-Blue is what we started using for both fore-and-aft pole-guys and tag-lines. Got rid of all the wire except the troll wire on the gurdy drums. We have pretty hefty long poles, and before I replaced the wire I had to put the pole-halyards on the capstan to get the poles up, or call the deck-hand to help haul. Now even my wife can take the poles up by herself. Nice! It splices super easy, thimbles work well with it, it wears like iron, is stronger than steel size-for-size, is virtually impervious to UV, won't corrode, and it floats! You can buy it in International Orange if you want. And you'll sure see that!
The only problem when using it for tag-lines is that it's pretty limp and will fly around in wind and seems to love to catch behind the shackles and pad-eyes on the upper part of the poles. I've learned to put a bungy on them back by the davits to prevent this.
It's sailboat stuff for sure, but heck, I know several guys that have Harken Air-Blocks in the rig for their pole halyards! Besides, some of us could benefit from taking a little weight off.

[Salty]

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