Hello all,
I've been lurking for a while on this site, it's a great resource so thanks for sharing all your knowledge.
I am thinking about buying a hand troller and permit. In a previous life I seined, longlined and crabbed and crewed briefly on a power troller (years ago)in SE. I'm looking to get back into fishing, and hand trolling seems like a good way to do it. My plan is to fish the Icy Straight and Chatham areas mostly on long weekends and my time off. I've read the catch stats for those areas from the ADFG site, and I realize that those areas have pretty low catch rates averaging about 30 fish/day for the power trollers this year. However, my day job is in Juneau, so fishing will be part time for me.
I've seen a few boats come up for sale on craigslist, but I wanted to ask what you guys think I should be looking for. It seems like every boat is a tradeoff between speed, fuel efficiency, comfort, trailerability, etc. So far I've been looking at a few 24-26' boats in Sitka and Petersburg. So, I'd like to ask first what I should be looking for in a hand troll operation.
-How much packing capacity should I need for shorter 2-3 day trips to Icy Straight and Chatham?
-How important is it to have poles on a hand troller vs. just gurdies?
-Can I get by without an autopilot if I use a steering station at the stern?
-Outboard vs. IO?
-Do Olympics make decent hand trollers?
-Are the packers pretty good about taking small deliveries from the hand crank fleet?
Most that I've seen have been Bayliners, Glasplys, Ospreys and Olympics with either outboard or I/O power. Here is a link to one of the boats I'm looking at:
http://anchorage.craigslist.org/boa/1350249653.html
I'm not looking to get rich, but it would be nice to make a little cash to cover my expenses and justify the investment. So, any guidance you can give me is appreciated. Thanks in advance-
Hand Trollers: What to look for?
Re: Hand Trollers: What to look for?
We live in Juneau and handtroll in Icy Strait. This is what I have learned so far:
Juneau is a terrible place to base weekend trips out of. It has overcrowded and expensive harbors, you have to make an appointment just to get ice, and you have to run a long ways to reach good fishing grounds.
The run between Juneau and Icy Strait usually involves some rough water.
You can't plan trips around weekends, you have to plan them around weather windows.
You need a comfortable boat or a place to stay when the weather blows up in Lynn Canal, and you can't get back to Juneau for several days.
You wont cover your expenses unless you market and sell your catch yourself.
It can be hard to get ice from the fish buyers if you never sell them fish.
I usually have poor catch rates when I fish with the powertoll fleet in Icy Strait. I seem to do a lot better off on my own.
And now for the good news:
You don't need poles, see Yaks post and pictures of trolling davits.
One half-tote should be enough for the amount of fish you can catch in a weekend.
There are people making money handtrolling in places like Port Althorpe, so you could always take the summer off and go camp out where the fish are.
If I were you I would buy a boat and go sportfish Icy Strait every weekend for a year. Then decide if you still want the handtroll permit.
Juneau is a terrible place to base weekend trips out of. It has overcrowded and expensive harbors, you have to make an appointment just to get ice, and you have to run a long ways to reach good fishing grounds.
The run between Juneau and Icy Strait usually involves some rough water.
You can't plan trips around weekends, you have to plan them around weather windows.
You need a comfortable boat or a place to stay when the weather blows up in Lynn Canal, and you can't get back to Juneau for several days.
You wont cover your expenses unless you market and sell your catch yourself.
It can be hard to get ice from the fish buyers if you never sell them fish.
I usually have poor catch rates when I fish with the powertoll fleet in Icy Strait. I seem to do a lot better off on my own.
And now for the good news:
You don't need poles, see Yaks post and pictures of trolling davits.
One half-tote should be enough for the amount of fish you can catch in a weekend.
There are people making money handtrolling in places like Port Althorpe, so you could always take the summer off and go camp out where the fish are.
If I were you I would buy a boat and go sportfish Icy Strait every weekend for a year. Then decide if you still want the handtroll permit.
Re: Hand Trollers: What to look for?
Out of Juneau you ARE going to be in somewhat of a quandary, as groundhog describes. Ideally, you need about a 30 ft. live aboard model, with an economical little diesel. This would give you a good range and comfortable accommodations to stay out for a few days. However pulling a boat like this in and out, would be very difficult, and finding a berth for even harder. Staying on the smaller side for weekend adventures would probably be your best bet. a good reliable kicker is a MUST. with today's fuel prices they pay for themselves very quickly, and there's the added safety of having a second motor to come home in an emergency. I would highly recommend getting a boat that has already been rigged for trolling, in the interests of saving time and start up costs. If you wide up getting a boat with I/O, replace it with an outboard down the road, far less maintenance, there much more reliable, and ultimately you wind up getting a lot more work friendly deck when the old inboard engine's gone. Sure is nice to be able to walk unobstructed from one gurdy to the other without having to walk around. You can use the old engine compartment below deck for storage, or emergency fish bin. There was a post in the for sale section back in March, TROPHY HANDTROLLER FOR SALE by Ambition, sure looked like a sweet ride to me, I'd check her out. Loved his gurdies.
trolling is like any other business, if not more so, in that there will be an investment curve. You'll have to put your time in until you become an effective commercial fisherman, learn where and when their at,,,etc. On a smaller boat I highly recommend that you consider getting a little insulated half tote for each side of your boat that should fit right ahead of your gurdies. Probably true that one would hold your catch most of the time, but I like to be able to spread them out for stability. Whatever you wind up with, built a cover over your back deck, it sure is nice to be out of the elements.
I run a 24ft. Bayliner, and have for about ten years now. It works out just fine for a small scale hand crank operation. One thing to always keep in mind, I've never done it yet, but boats this size will fit easily on some of the State Ferries. If you get wind of a big bite somewhere out of your range,,,jump right on, and you can be anywhere in S.E. in less than 24hrs.
I don't have an auto pilot, but I do have a back deck helm, If I had to pick I'd have a back deck helm first, so you can steer around obstacles without having to run forward constantly. Auto pilots are great for holding a course, but they don't know how to zig-zag through the Lund fleet, or around a log.
trolling is like any other business, if not more so, in that there will be an investment curve. You'll have to put your time in until you become an effective commercial fisherman, learn where and when their at,,,etc. On a smaller boat I highly recommend that you consider getting a little insulated half tote for each side of your boat that should fit right ahead of your gurdies. Probably true that one would hold your catch most of the time, but I like to be able to spread them out for stability. Whatever you wind up with, built a cover over your back deck, it sure is nice to be out of the elements.
I run a 24ft. Bayliner, and have for about ten years now. It works out just fine for a small scale hand crank operation. One thing to always keep in mind, I've never done it yet, but boats this size will fit easily on some of the State Ferries. If you get wind of a big bite somewhere out of your range,,,jump right on, and you can be anywhere in S.E. in less than 24hrs.
I don't have an auto pilot, but I do have a back deck helm, If I had to pick I'd have a back deck helm first, so you can steer around obstacles without having to run forward constantly. Auto pilots are great for holding a course, but they don't know how to zig-zag through the Lund fleet, or around a log.
Re: Hand Trollers: What to look for?
Yak and Groundhog,
Thanks for the good suggestions. Your advice is good and I've gotten the cr@p kicked out of me in Lynn Canal enough to recognize that you can't just plan to leave Friday after work and come home Sunday night...the weather determines when you can get out, and worse-when you can get home. Juneau is also the least fishing-friendly town in SE, and has pretty poor access to the good fishing areas.
Yak-I looked up the ferry prices and it looks like a guy with a trailerable boat could get it to Pelican, Hoonah or Sitka and back for less than $800 (when the ferry is running). It might be worth the trip to the coast for the King salmon opener, without having to deal with the weather risk of making such a long run in a small boat. Then again, I've sat in Pelican for 10 days straight before waiting for decent enough weather to go longlining. I'm at the point where I'm looking to upgrade from my 19' boat to a 24-26 footer anyway, and I'm thinking it might as well be a troller. I did see the Trophy you mentioned last spring, I think that might be a good fit for a dual purpose hand troller/family boat.
Groundhog-I definitely appreciate the words of caution, perhaps I'll spend some more time in Icy next summer before committing to a permit (or maybe look for an Xfer). I am curious though, it looks like there are some areas closer than Icy that are open during different times of the year. For example, the drag from Pt. Retreat to Lizard Head looks open during the summer and winter fisheries. Have you been successful in other areas when you couldn't get all the way out to Icy? As for fish buyers, it makes sense that they aren't crazy about giving ice if you don't deliver to them. Are you delivering to the tenders on the grounds usually or are you packing them back to one of the outfits in town? Are you still having fun with it or has it been too much of a headache to enjoy?
At the end of the day, I'm interested in trolling because I enjoy it, and my day job can support my fishing habit. I just need to figure out if it's worth the hassle of doing it out of Juneau.....maybe I should be looking at a crab permit instead.
Thanks again for the tips guys~
Thanks for the good suggestions. Your advice is good and I've gotten the cr@p kicked out of me in Lynn Canal enough to recognize that you can't just plan to leave Friday after work and come home Sunday night...the weather determines when you can get out, and worse-when you can get home. Juneau is also the least fishing-friendly town in SE, and has pretty poor access to the good fishing areas.
Yak-I looked up the ferry prices and it looks like a guy with a trailerable boat could get it to Pelican, Hoonah or Sitka and back for less than $800 (when the ferry is running). It might be worth the trip to the coast for the King salmon opener, without having to deal with the weather risk of making such a long run in a small boat. Then again, I've sat in Pelican for 10 days straight before waiting for decent enough weather to go longlining. I'm at the point where I'm looking to upgrade from my 19' boat to a 24-26 footer anyway, and I'm thinking it might as well be a troller. I did see the Trophy you mentioned last spring, I think that might be a good fit for a dual purpose hand troller/family boat.
Groundhog-I definitely appreciate the words of caution, perhaps I'll spend some more time in Icy next summer before committing to a permit (or maybe look for an Xfer). I am curious though, it looks like there are some areas closer than Icy that are open during different times of the year. For example, the drag from Pt. Retreat to Lizard Head looks open during the summer and winter fisheries. Have you been successful in other areas when you couldn't get all the way out to Icy? As for fish buyers, it makes sense that they aren't crazy about giving ice if you don't deliver to them. Are you delivering to the tenders on the grounds usually or are you packing them back to one of the outfits in town? Are you still having fun with it or has it been too much of a headache to enjoy?
At the end of the day, I'm interested in trolling because I enjoy it, and my day job can support my fishing habit. I just need to figure out if it's worth the hassle of doing it out of Juneau.....maybe I should be looking at a crab permit instead.
Thanks again for the tips guys~
Re: Hand Trollers: What to look for?
Akjob,
I haven't fished the Pt. Retreat to Lizard Head drag commercially, so I'm not sure how productive it would be. I have seen handtrollers there in the past.
We live in Icy Strait during the summer, so that's where we fish. I've sold a few loads of fish to Hoonah Cold Storage. Recently I made the mistake of telling my wife she could keep the money from any fish she sold privately in Juneau. She is a way better salesman than I am a fisherman. I don't think the buyers are going to see any more fish from me until dog season.
For me handtrolling is a fun hobby that pays for itself. Barely.
If the powertrollers are averaging 30 fish a day in Icy Strait, then you should expect 10 fish/day running two lines. A long weekend would give you two full days of fishing and 20 fish. I think the average dressed coho weight is around 5.4 lbs., and the buyers are giving $1.40/lb. That gives you $151.20 and a stinky boat for your troubles. Whatever boat you buy had better be very fuel efficient.
You could always rig up your 19 footer for handtrolling and zip out to Pt. Retreat nights and weekends. Then if everything works out and you still like it, upgrade to the bigger boat.
I haven't fished the Pt. Retreat to Lizard Head drag commercially, so I'm not sure how productive it would be. I have seen handtrollers there in the past.
We live in Icy Strait during the summer, so that's where we fish. I've sold a few loads of fish to Hoonah Cold Storage. Recently I made the mistake of telling my wife she could keep the money from any fish she sold privately in Juneau. She is a way better salesman than I am a fisherman. I don't think the buyers are going to see any more fish from me until dog season.
For me handtrolling is a fun hobby that pays for itself. Barely.
If the powertrollers are averaging 30 fish a day in Icy Strait, then you should expect 10 fish/day running two lines. A long weekend would give you two full days of fishing and 20 fish. I think the average dressed coho weight is around 5.4 lbs., and the buyers are giving $1.40/lb. That gives you $151.20 and a stinky boat for your troubles. Whatever boat you buy had better be very fuel efficient.
You could always rig up your 19 footer for handtrolling and zip out to Pt. Retreat nights and weekends. Then if everything works out and you still like it, upgrade to the bigger boat.
Re: Hand Trollers: What to look for?
Wow great thread guys!!
Im sitting here reading AKJobs questions and I feel like it was me writing them. I too am in Juneau looking to get a family/handtroll/sport boat.
Ya the biggest prob I see in Juneaus location. It would definatly be impossible to make a living hand cranking out of Juneau. Seems like you would have to commit at least a month to hard fishing Cross sound to make any kind of decent money. So that being said...which month? Go for the July king glory and crank away on Sept Coho?
Let keep this one going guys!
Im sitting here reading AKJobs questions and I feel like it was me writing them. I too am in Juneau looking to get a family/handtroll/sport boat.
Ya the biggest prob I see in Juneaus location. It would definatly be impossible to make a living hand cranking out of Juneau. Seems like you would have to commit at least a month to hard fishing Cross sound to make any kind of decent money. So that being said...which month? Go for the July king glory and crank away on Sept Coho?
Let keep this one going guys!
Re: Hand Trollers: What to look for?
I've never wet a hook anywhere near Juneau. However, every time I fly in the fall/winter months the little islands around Auke bay and the Gastineau Channel intrigue me. To me it just looks like the quite little home a winter feeder king would live on. Obviously there's not huge numbers or someone would be on it, but their might be enough that a small hand cranker could have fun on it, and yet be down to deep for the sport guys to reach.
How about fishing hatchery fish?
How about fishing hatchery fish?
Re: Hand Trollers: What to look for?
I've wondered about those islands myself Yak. However, the Auke Bay area is closed year-round. Another difficulty in fishing out of Juneau is that you need to run a long distance just to find open water, let alone productive areas. I've seen your photos of those purple colored winter kings and it has me craving some winter king action.
It's beginning to feel a bit like a pipe dream that I'll even break even fishing weekends out of Juneau. There would be some tax advantages though
Thanks for the insight into this thread. Perhaps I'll be asking you for recommendations on some basic spoons to start with soon-
It's beginning to feel a bit like a pipe dream that I'll even break even fishing weekends out of Juneau. There would be some tax advantages though
Thanks for the insight into this thread. Perhaps I'll be asking you for recommendations on some basic spoons to start with soon-
Re: Hand Trollers: What to look for?
If you look back far enough in previous threads, you'll find myself and others have discussed spoons, leaders, flashers, and all kinds of helpful tips. Some stuff is universal anywhere salmon swim, other stuff you'll discover only works in certain areas. I have friends who swear by certain types of gear for southeast, won't catch a thing with it up here.
One thing about winter fishing, EVERYTHING changes. Food is scarce, metabolisms slow, lighting is different and shorter. Sometimes kings get lethargic and conservative, seeking out quite places where they don't have to work to hard. They're not in any hurry to get anywhere to spawn. A lot of times you don't have to head out to the big offshore drags, I've seen winter kings caught in front of the boat harbor before. I've heard of people catching a king in Gastineau channel in the dead of winter before. If one swam through, more surely will.
Juneau is definitely a ways off of the worn out drags, but it's still connected to the rest of the ocean, and fish have tails.
I'll ask again, isn't there some good hatchery returns around there abouts in the summer months?
Anyone new to trolling should go read my post 10.00 INSURANCE AND OTHER USEFUL TIPS.
Final thought for this post, a lot of us all over S.E., have fishing partners. There's an obvious safety factor, but you also benefit by sharing info. One guy fishes shallow, the other deep. You try out different colors and compare notes. etc. Picking guys to run with who match your size, speed, and ability to go, only makes sense. Seems like there's a few of you Juneau folks interested in the fishery, maybe some of you should get together.
One thing about winter fishing, EVERYTHING changes. Food is scarce, metabolisms slow, lighting is different and shorter. Sometimes kings get lethargic and conservative, seeking out quite places where they don't have to work to hard. They're not in any hurry to get anywhere to spawn. A lot of times you don't have to head out to the big offshore drags, I've seen winter kings caught in front of the boat harbor before. I've heard of people catching a king in Gastineau channel in the dead of winter before. If one swam through, more surely will.
Juneau is definitely a ways off of the worn out drags, but it's still connected to the rest of the ocean, and fish have tails.
I'll ask again, isn't there some good hatchery returns around there abouts in the summer months?
Anyone new to trolling should go read my post 10.00 INSURANCE AND OTHER USEFUL TIPS.
Final thought for this post, a lot of us all over S.E., have fishing partners. There's an obvious safety factor, but you also benefit by sharing info. One guy fishes shallow, the other deep. You try out different colors and compare notes. etc. Picking guys to run with who match your size, speed, and ability to go, only makes sense. Seems like there's a few of you Juneau folks interested in the fishery, maybe some of you should get together.
Re: Hand Trollers: What to look for?
Thanks again Yak for the suggestions, I'll search your old posts.
As for hatcheries, there are some large hatchery returns in the area, particularly for chum. The terminal areas are generally not open to trolling though. Based on my experience sport trolling, it would be pretty easy to catch a lot of hatchery-bound chum with commercial gear during the spring and summer seasons. I'm somewhat skeptical that I'd be able to find a market that pays enough to support the habit though. I don't think I'd even pay for gas money bringing in small loads of pinks and dogs. Are the processors at all interested in taking small loads of troll-caught chum and pinks?
At this point I'm inclined to try it using the 19' boat I have now and, and upgrade to something bigger if I like it. The investment would be pretty small, although I might take a loss on the permit if they keep going down in price. Thanks to all for your suggestions.
As for hatcheries, there are some large hatchery returns in the area, particularly for chum. The terminal areas are generally not open to trolling though. Based on my experience sport trolling, it would be pretty easy to catch a lot of hatchery-bound chum with commercial gear during the spring and summer seasons. I'm somewhat skeptical that I'd be able to find a market that pays enough to support the habit though. I don't think I'd even pay for gas money bringing in small loads of pinks and dogs. Are the processors at all interested in taking small loads of troll-caught chum and pinks?
At this point I'm inclined to try it using the 19' boat I have now and, and upgrade to something bigger if I like it. The investment would be pretty small, although I might take a loss on the permit if they keep going down in price. Thanks to all for your suggestions.
Re: Hand Trollers: What to look for?
Glacier Seafoods is interested in bright troll-caught chum salmon. Particularly early in the season before they get bogged down with net caught fish. I think dogs are fun to catch. With my setup, when trolling at dog speed my fishfinder shows everything. You can see all the gear working and watch individual fish swim up and hit the hook (or refuse it).
Re: Hand Trollers: What to look for?
The best part of Chum trolling from what I hear is, no cleaning!! their after the eggs. Finally getting some good numbers of cohos on my end, I'm about worn out from cleaning.
Re: Hand Trollers: What to look for?
I probably should refrain from commenting since people have chastised me for:
1. Actually sharing useful information;
2. Having the hubris to share my opinion on things others felt I didn't know enough about;
3. "Hijacking" the site by posting too much too often;
4. Using the name "Salty" when those who know me think "wimpy" would be better suited.
One reader even suggested to my wife that he would like to cut my fingers off so I couldn't type.
Nevertheless here is my response to the above and to the questions about handtrolling out of Juneau which I have actually done in a skiff in the summers of 74, 75, and 76.
1. My father Wilhelm (Skip) Jordan always helped other trollers and I am continuing that tradition. We both have been criticized for it. The difference is that he was greatly hurt by the criticism and it just inspires me.
2. It takes a certain amount of hubris to be willing to attempt any meaningful communication and sharing and none of us know enough that we can't benefit from the intercourse of ideas.
3. Guilty.
4. "Salty" was the name my father chose for his first boat. I thought it was a good handle. It in no way was an attempt to appear tougher or saltier than I am.
So with that off my chest here are my comments on handtrolling out of Juneau. For all practical purposes the regulatory closures of trolling around Juneau have eliminated it as a troll port for day fishermen. I proposed opening an area around Juneau to chum trolling a few years ago and the Territorial Sportsmen and the Gillnetters opposed it. I don't imagine trolling being re-opened in those areas in the forseeable future. Because the gillnetters are so far ahead in their allocated share of the value of SE hatchery salmon..... trollers should be given access and time to harvest a significant % of the commercial harvest of DIPAC hatchery chum.
I think the posts here by groundhog and others are basically right on.
Outboard over inboard.
Move to near where you are fishing. Elfin Cove, Pelican, Excursion Inlet, Yakutat, Sitka, etc.
Try seriously sport fishing first. If you start catching buy a handtroll permit and fish four rods. If you are worth anything as a fisherman you should be able to make as much with rods as with hand gurdies, especially if you are old and can't crank and move as fast as the younger guys. If you want to run wires, then buy a power permit and figure out how to run it out of whatever size boat with electrical, hydraulic or whatever.
I hand cranked 6 years. I represented Sitka handtrollers politically before the Board of Fisheries and on the Advisory Panel to the North Pacific Fisheries Council. Hand cranking lines exploded in SE because we limited entry into the power troll fishery. I was one of those who took advantage of that loophole. I know some wonderful people who are still handcranking wires. But it is like my friends and I who handlined halibut. It takes being a combination of a beast and a bit insane.
Don't think about the money. While everyone has their own reasons for trolling to me it is because I love a combination of problem solving keeping a boat running, enjoying the remarkable places of SE Alaska, and figuring out how to catch and market salmon. By places I mean both the marine environment of tides, weather, ocean and straits, and the wonderful small communities, coves, bays and islands of this region.
One of the guys mentioned the importance of having partners. I just had a call today from a guy whose partner has already hung it up for the season and how it wasn't much fun fishing without anyone to communicate with. One of the things I love best about trolling is the collaboration with other trollers, scientists, managers, buyers, etc. to put together a day, a trip, a season. If nothing else the troll fleet is a wonderful collection of colorful characters.
However you are going to set up your operation please pay some attention to the ergonomics of it. How are you going to land your fish? Is your cleaning station set up efficiently? Are your fish handling and storing areas easy to clean?
I just had a partner who had an amazing score on coho recently. It was amazing how many he could handle in a short period of time because he had put a lot of thought into both the ergonomics and efficiency of his operation. Figuring out how to find them and get them to bite is just a small part of the equation to sustained production and pleasure.
Finally, I highly recommend giving it a try. Trolling in SE Alaska is one of the most wonderful things you can do in your life if you are inclined to enjoy the challenges of keeping a boat running and fishing in some of the most beautiful country in the world. I recently talked to a couple of older guys who participated in this site last year and both bought power trollers. They seemed to be having a great time. I recently ran from Sitka to Elfin Cove up the inside, fished a couple of days, ran to Hidden Falls, back to the outer coast, and finally put in three days of fishing. We had a wonderful time, saw lots of friends in Elfin Cove, visited with all kinds of old friends on the VHF and on the dock in Elfin Cove, saw countless whales, including leaping Orca's, and saw at least 6 brown bears.
Eventually I even stumbled onto a bunch of nice coho. But not enough to wear me out cleaning. While I have gotten tired of cleaning coho I can honestly say I never had the ability to catch enough to wear me out cleaning with my set up. Cleaning is so easy with a sharp knife, a troff at the right level, a hanging hose, and a short slide down into the slush tank. Of course it also really helps that Sarah cleans most of them.
1. Actually sharing useful information;
2. Having the hubris to share my opinion on things others felt I didn't know enough about;
3. "Hijacking" the site by posting too much too often;
4. Using the name "Salty" when those who know me think "wimpy" would be better suited.
One reader even suggested to my wife that he would like to cut my fingers off so I couldn't type.
Nevertheless here is my response to the above and to the questions about handtrolling out of Juneau which I have actually done in a skiff in the summers of 74, 75, and 76.
1. My father Wilhelm (Skip) Jordan always helped other trollers and I am continuing that tradition. We both have been criticized for it. The difference is that he was greatly hurt by the criticism and it just inspires me.
2. It takes a certain amount of hubris to be willing to attempt any meaningful communication and sharing and none of us know enough that we can't benefit from the intercourse of ideas.
3. Guilty.
4. "Salty" was the name my father chose for his first boat. I thought it was a good handle. It in no way was an attempt to appear tougher or saltier than I am.
So with that off my chest here are my comments on handtrolling out of Juneau. For all practical purposes the regulatory closures of trolling around Juneau have eliminated it as a troll port for day fishermen. I proposed opening an area around Juneau to chum trolling a few years ago and the Territorial Sportsmen and the Gillnetters opposed it. I don't imagine trolling being re-opened in those areas in the forseeable future. Because the gillnetters are so far ahead in their allocated share of the value of SE hatchery salmon..... trollers should be given access and time to harvest a significant % of the commercial harvest of DIPAC hatchery chum.
I think the posts here by groundhog and others are basically right on.
Outboard over inboard.
Move to near where you are fishing. Elfin Cove, Pelican, Excursion Inlet, Yakutat, Sitka, etc.
Try seriously sport fishing first. If you start catching buy a handtroll permit and fish four rods. If you are worth anything as a fisherman you should be able to make as much with rods as with hand gurdies, especially if you are old and can't crank and move as fast as the younger guys. If you want to run wires, then buy a power permit and figure out how to run it out of whatever size boat with electrical, hydraulic or whatever.
I hand cranked 6 years. I represented Sitka handtrollers politically before the Board of Fisheries and on the Advisory Panel to the North Pacific Fisheries Council. Hand cranking lines exploded in SE because we limited entry into the power troll fishery. I was one of those who took advantage of that loophole. I know some wonderful people who are still handcranking wires. But it is like my friends and I who handlined halibut. It takes being a combination of a beast and a bit insane.
Don't think about the money. While everyone has their own reasons for trolling to me it is because I love a combination of problem solving keeping a boat running, enjoying the remarkable places of SE Alaska, and figuring out how to catch and market salmon. By places I mean both the marine environment of tides, weather, ocean and straits, and the wonderful small communities, coves, bays and islands of this region.
One of the guys mentioned the importance of having partners. I just had a call today from a guy whose partner has already hung it up for the season and how it wasn't much fun fishing without anyone to communicate with. One of the things I love best about trolling is the collaboration with other trollers, scientists, managers, buyers, etc. to put together a day, a trip, a season. If nothing else the troll fleet is a wonderful collection of colorful characters.
However you are going to set up your operation please pay some attention to the ergonomics of it. How are you going to land your fish? Is your cleaning station set up efficiently? Are your fish handling and storing areas easy to clean?
I just had a partner who had an amazing score on coho recently. It was amazing how many he could handle in a short period of time because he had put a lot of thought into both the ergonomics and efficiency of his operation. Figuring out how to find them and get them to bite is just a small part of the equation to sustained production and pleasure.
Finally, I highly recommend giving it a try. Trolling in SE Alaska is one of the most wonderful things you can do in your life if you are inclined to enjoy the challenges of keeping a boat running and fishing in some of the most beautiful country in the world. I recently talked to a couple of older guys who participated in this site last year and both bought power trollers. They seemed to be having a great time. I recently ran from Sitka to Elfin Cove up the inside, fished a couple of days, ran to Hidden Falls, back to the outer coast, and finally put in three days of fishing. We had a wonderful time, saw lots of friends in Elfin Cove, visited with all kinds of old friends on the VHF and on the dock in Elfin Cove, saw countless whales, including leaping Orca's, and saw at least 6 brown bears.
Eventually I even stumbled onto a bunch of nice coho. But not enough to wear me out cleaning. While I have gotten tired of cleaning coho I can honestly say I never had the ability to catch enough to wear me out cleaning with my set up. Cleaning is so easy with a sharp knife, a troff at the right level, a hanging hose, and a short slide down into the slush tank. Of course it also really helps that Sarah cleans most of them.
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azdeckhand
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Re: Hand Trollers: What to look for?
Thanks for that, Salty....!
I have sportfished out of Seward with friends and family for years and am now hoping to crew for part of this Summer in the SE.
Your descriptions of what this work is........and the small communities, weather and sea........! Being part beast and a little insane.......! That is the passion I feel when I am out fishing and I look forward to getting there and being a part of it all.
GREAT FORUM! Thanks to all for all the info.......!!
I have sportfished out of Seward with friends and family for years and am now hoping to crew for part of this Summer in the SE.
Your descriptions of what this work is........and the small communities, weather and sea........! Being part beast and a little insane.......! That is the passion I feel when I am out fishing and I look forward to getting there and being a part of it all.
GREAT FORUM! Thanks to all for all the info.......!!
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birdfeeder1
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- Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:26 pm
- Spammer?: No
Re: Hand Trollers: What to look for?
i have made some money on the lizard head to pt retreat. 2 yrs in a row in fact 08 and 09 it can be done. i hand trolled out of juneau 3 yrs now the 1st year i fished i lost money though in Juneau area. but it was always fun.
Re: Hand Trollers: What to look for?
Birdfeeder,
Our chum trollers association is looking for an area to target DiPac chums. Do you see any area in the Juneau area where you see them jumping? Do you catch many in the Lizard Head -Pt. Retreat area? You can send me a private message if you don't want to share something with anyone looking in.
Our chum trollers association is looking for an area to target DiPac chums. Do you see any area in the Juneau area where you see them jumping? Do you catch many in the Lizard Head -Pt. Retreat area? You can send me a private message if you don't want to share something with anyone looking in.
Re: Hand Trollers: What to look for?
Handtrolling out of Juneau can be a bitch. The expenses of running back and forth to the open legal areas usually puts the ki-bosh on someone trying to get started. Back in the 60s and early 70s it was possible because the areas inside of Retreat and all around Shelter Is. were open to trolling all summer. Even back then we usually ran out to Icy Strait or Elfin Cove to be close to a packer or the Fern II "buying scow" (another thing of the past). I would strongly recommend a move to Elfin Cove or possibly to Sitka - shorter run and more fish available. 
Salty - I suspect there may be possibilities for chum trolling in here closer to Juneau. Obviously the Funter shoreline is a possibility and also St. James from Whidbey to Boat Harbor. Lots of tight patches of jumpers in both areas and some solid chevrons on the color machine. Unfortunately my fave area is closed to commercial trolling but the sport fishing in late June into mid-July is awesome from Tee Harbor up into the area of DIPAC's remote net pen anchorage at the mouth of Peterson Creek. I use the same general techniques as I used to over in the Eastern Channel Dog Patch and high-grade the brights with barbless hooks on bug gear. Give me a call when you have a chance.
Salty - I suspect there may be possibilities for chum trolling in here closer to Juneau. Obviously the Funter shoreline is a possibility and also St. James from Whidbey to Boat Harbor. Lots of tight patches of jumpers in both areas and some solid chevrons on the color machine. Unfortunately my fave area is closed to commercial trolling but the sport fishing in late June into mid-July is awesome from Tee Harbor up into the area of DIPAC's remote net pen anchorage at the mouth of Peterson Creek. I use the same general techniques as I used to over in the Eastern Channel Dog Patch and high-grade the brights with barbless hooks on bug gear. Give me a call when you have a chance.
Re: Hand Trollers: What to look for?
Will do.